Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20191021

Went in front of them the first time, the press corps the first time, this happens all the time, no, it never happens. And get over it. Get over it. So this is what i love about the incompetence surrounding the white house, and actually the reelection campaign. The guy who actually made a statement in the course of moving donald trump a lot closer to being impeached, that guy in his ignorant words get over it, now being sold as tshirts. This is like so let me get this straight. Youre selling the evidence thats going to lead you to impeachment . They even make money off of that . I understand your foolishness with doral that you woke up and smelled the cat food on that one that it was unconstitutional and it was going to get you impeached. Thank god we dont have to explain to Boris Johnson and all the bedbugs that was going to get macron wouldnt like the bedbugs. So grossed out. Very well put together. But those doral bedbugs are killers especially in the summer. Im feeling a little itchy right now. But anyway, theyre arrogant about their stupidity and theyre also arrogant and trying to market off the evidence thats going to lead to donald trump being impeached. Only the third president in the history of the United States to be impeached. On thursday there were three reasons why the white house held up aid to ukraine. By sunday, as you saw, it was down to two. Missing link, of course, when Mick Mulvaney openly acknowledged last week a quid pro quo. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. It is monday, october 21st. With us we have White House Reporter for the Associated Press jonathan lemire. Political writer for the New York Times, nick confessore. Former aide to the george w. Bush white house and state department elise jordan. And nbc news correspondent covering National Security and intelligence, ken dilanian. Jonathan lemire, lets start by talking about the new york yankees failing to make the world series for this entire decade, the first decade as you pointed out since 100 years ago in the 19 teens. We could talk about that. But also with that just as a backdrop to everything we do for the next several weeks. Talk about the level of concern, the level of despair inside the white house with mulvaney admitting publicly the quid pro quo. Rudy giulianis ongoing troubles, his tangled business relationships that seem to be hes looking for love nault wro in all the wrong places. Talk about the toxic stew this is creating and the concern inside the white house about how this could lead to Donald Trumps impeachment and more. First, joe, on the yankees, the most Important News of the morning, youre right, this is the first decade since the 19 teens in which they did not appear in the world series, not even appear in the world series. They spent 2 billion on players this decade without appearing in the world series. They have now gone 18 of the last 19 seasons without winning a world series. Ouch. And theres this stat. They look at lemire. I brought statistics with me. Brought receipts. I see that. And the decade that just ended for 19 from 2010 to 2019, they had the winningest record in the regular season but yet did not make a single world series, the first team in Major League Baseball history to do that. I hate when that happens. The heart breaks. The heart breaks for the yankees and their fans. Think we are on tap for a great world series. That should be a lot of fun. In terms of the white house, there is rising angst in the building on a few different issues. The acting chief of staffs disastrous News Conference, thats how its being viewed in every corner of trumps world, you know, is still having ramifications now. Theyve had to clean up theyve had to reverse themselves on g7 as you saw. No longer having it at the president s golf course in doral just outside of miami, florida. The quid pro quo issue which mulvaney laid out on thursday, tried to clean up in a statement later in that day, tried again over the weekend in the sunday show appearances, you know, has led a lot of people in the Trump White House wondering if perhaps he will not be long for his job. We saw immediately the personal attorney jay sekulow distance from what mulvaney said. There have been people in the building who already were unhappy with how mulvaney had been handling the impeachment inquiry, according to our reporting, and this has just thrown gasoline on the fire pushing for him to be removed. But people we talked to over the weekend said that mulvaneys job for now is safe not because the president is happy with him, he sent, but because th isnt, but they dont have any replacements. This white house has struggled to hire and retain talented white house officials, people to work in the administration. Theres no short list now. Theres no sense that mulvaney is going to lose his job anytime soon. Well, i think this from the patterns that weve seen, one can deduce that this white house operates on vacancies. Same with the state department. The more jobs that are not filled, the more that void trump can fill on his own. Heres more from Mick Mulvaney on Fox News Sunday trying to walk back his remarks from last week about the quid pro quo arguing that reporters actually reporters had misinterpreted his comments. Why did you say in that briefing that President Trump had ordered a quid pro quo quid pro quo that investigating the democrats, that aid to ukraine depend on investigating the democrats . Whyd you say that. Thats what people said that i said. Heres what i said, ill say it again and hopefully people will listen this time. There were two reasons that we held up the aid. Weve talked about this at some length. The first one was the rampant corruption in ukraine. President was also concerned about whether or not other nations, specifically european nations, were helping with foreign aid to the ukraine was well. I then did mention that the president in past had mentioned to me from time to time about the dnc server. He mentioned it to other people publicly. He even mentioned it to president zelensky in the phone call. But it wasnt connected to the aid, and thats where i think people got sidetracked this weekend in the press conference. Theres is not a quid pro quo. You described a quid pro quo and you said that happens all the time. Reporters will use their language all the time. My lang wage never said quid pro quo. I never stled was a quid pro quo because there isnt. Chris, youve been in these briefings, you know how back and forth it have, how rapid fire it is. Look to the facts on the ground, things you can certify and what should put this issue to bed is that the money flowed without any connection whatsoever to the dnc server. But you so that was him yesterday. Here again is what mulvaney said very clearly on thursday. Did he also mention to me in the past that the corruption related to the dnc serve center absolutely, no question about that. But thats it. Thats why we held up the money. I was involved with the process by which the money was held up temporarily, okay. Three issues for that. The corruption in the country, whether or not other countries were participating in the support of the ukraine, and whether or not they were cooperating in and Ongoing Investigation with our department of justice. Thats completely legitimate. So of course, elise, i mean, theres rank stupidity here. I dont know whether Mick Mulvaney is the one that is so stupid or whether he believes that donald Trump Supporters are so stupid that if he just keeps lying, talks fast enough he thinks the roobs in his mind will let it pass. But he set a couple things of course in the press conference on thursday, said it happens all the time. No, it does not happen all the time. Its, in fact, thats a lie. He was called out on the lie. He was so humiliated with the lie he didnt even report it on sunday. Then on sunday i found it fascinating oh, were talking about the serve, he are oh, trade, we dont look at the serve, everybodys looking at the dnc server, right . Actually, no. Only conspiracy theorists are talking you about a dnc server being hidden mysteriously somewhere by an oligarch in ukraine. Nobody believes that to be the truth. That is a Conspiracy Theory and yet he is saying, thats the quid pro quo. This this Conspiracy Theory that was disproven by conservatives and liberals a very long time ago. Joe, its just been really disappointing to watch Mick Mulvaney behaving the way that he is. I previously thought very highly of him and his character and his intentions in public policy. This has just been a really disappointing episode where i am not sure what hes doing following these conspiracy theories. I thought he was a more seriousminded man and a more honest man. And it just, frankly, is disappointing to watch him swept up in elise, i can ask you, whats he doing . Why is he doing this . There can be no position worth this. He supposedly was a small government conservative. Hes now proudly serving with the biggestspending republican in the history of this republic or aniry publy republic, digesbt ever, biggest debt. The trade war is expanding. The number of Illegal Immigrants caught on the border far beyond where they ever were under barack obama. Theres a really disappointing oneword answer and its called power. Proximity to power and what people are willing to give up to stay close to the power. Even in an acting capacity, which i would add how long is that acting title . Is he ever even going to get a get made the official chief of staff . You hear from people who have worked in this white house that Jared Kushner is the de facto chief of staff and i cant imagine why it is worth it for Mick Mulvaney to stick around and deface himself like this when youve got Jared Kushner in the wings. Jared kushner calling the shots. Yeah. Well it is a debasing is a great example of it. Hes debased himself. And in a big way. And when donald trump leaves town, which i think is going to be sooner rather than later after the next election, Mick Mulvaney will find himself like so many other trump employees, he wont be able to find a job around town because hes humiliated himself. Hes proven himself to be a liar time and time again. Hes proven hell do anything. Yeah. Anything just to have the spotlight on him for a couple of seconds. There is such a sleaze factor. And its gone back to what rick wilson has always said, anything trump temps dies. That extends to reputations of people that work for him. Lets talk about why this matters on the world stage in terms of our National Security. Ken dilanian, after we get over the shock of the blatantsy, lets talk about the words he said about holding up the aid. First of all, whats the chief of staff doing in that position . It appears he was heavily involved in this. It appears from this sort of backtrack and initial blurt on his part that there must be so much on the record about this that theyre trying to muddy the message. In terms of what we know, why does this matter in terms of our National Security . Well, in terms of why Mick Mulvaney knows so much about it, it appears that its also because hes the head of omb, office of management and budget, they were the key figures in withholding this aid that had been approved by the defense department, appropriated by congress. People in defense and state were puzzled about why this aid to ukraine was being held up for so long. But in terms of how our allies are viewing this, im talking to against sources from western governments, you know, on the one hand are they terribly surprised . No, theyve known that donald trump is an incredibly transactional figure. Thats always been the book on donald trump that ive heard from foreign officials since the beginning of this presidency. But this takes it to another level. And ar and, you know, when you have Mick Mulvaney acknowledging there was a quid pro quo, it also raises the question how it was that the Justice Department closed this case without ever opening an investigation when the whistleblower made essentially a criminal referral over to doj. They only looked at the question wlf the of whether there was a Campaign Finance crime. People are looking at this saying this was bribery or extortion. Ukraine badly needed this military aid. Theyre in a war with russia and they knew that the white house was asking for certain things from them in exchange for the aid or that if they didnt do it the aid would be held up. I mean, in this conversation with donald trump and the ukrainian president , they mentioned javelin missiles, a very sophisticated web that the ukrainians wanted to deter russian tanks. And in the next breath donald trump talks about the investigation. It sends a horrible message not only to allies but companies on fence about whether they want to work with the United States. But, mika, of course after they asked for the missiles, of course the president said but im going to need you do something for us, okay. We all know. And then what we found is in the subsequent weeks after reading those transcripts, we, of course, saw the Text Messages that were going on between sondland and the other key players there talking about how they needed an investigation into bidens son if they were going to even have a meeting. And of course then you have mulvaney admitting publicly, yes, in fact there is a quid pro quo. We find out from sondland that he writes back that there was no quid pro quo, only talking only after talking to the president of the United States and then telling congress, he could not he could not tell them that the president was telling the truth. So this is why for democrats it may be so important to go through the process of impeachment and the process of asking questions and the process of spelling it out. Because this is a trump special in terms of muddling the truth. They realize theyve been caught with their hands in the cookie jar, so theyll say of course you have to put your hand in the cookie jar and of course you have to steal the cookie and eat it. And you can see Trump Supporters across the country saying it was joe biden who was corrupt if the was joe biden first. The president was doing what he should do, investigating corruption. And theyre going to take that message and make it a trump special. But, again a big sblie thatlie. Thats a lie. I know. The wall street journal said on the front page maybe a month ago that that was a discredited authorr theory. Its a discredited theory that biden did anything to get heat off of hunter. Hunter should have never been over there. Thats something that joe bidens going to have to deal with in his political yecareer. But on other side, donald trump does not get out of trouble for doing something for basically committing extortion against a democratic ally whos been being invaded by russia and Vladimir Putin. He doesnt get out of the courtroom by accusing somebody else. Hes the one in trouble here. Following widespread bipartisan criticism and maybe republicans will learn something from this, President Trump announced on saturday that next years g7 summit will no longer be held at his doral resort in florida. Republicans had an impact. The announcement came in a series of tweets where the president wrote in part, i thought i was doing something very good for our country. No, people dont like bedbugs. By using our Trump National doral in miami for hosting the g7 okay. So first of all, were going to read through these here. But hes advertising, im not reading, hes advertising. This is what im going to say unless i mentioned bedbugs. It shows just how corrupt this man is as president of the United States. And the corruption, the stealing from american taxpayers, the using of his office to stuff his pockets with corrupt dollars, its all laid out. Listen to this advertisement. In a president ial tweet which this is the official white house statement, according to the white house. It is big, grand, on hundreds of acres, next to Miami International airport, has tremendous ball rooms and meeting rooms, and each delegation would have had its own 50 to 70unit building, blah, blah, blah, it goes on. So, you know, nick confessore, he keeps going on talking about how great his own this is good stuff, though. Its amazing stuff, nick. And its just a straightout advertisement for a property that he owns. Liberals, moderates, conservatives, they all know its corrupt. And most of them, other than marco rubio, actually said, you know what . Thats corrupt, you cant do it, oh and besides, it violates the constitution of the United States. And yet he was going to do it anyway. First of all, in any prior administration, obama, bush, that tweet alone from what is his de facto official account for the presidency would have prompted an ethics investigation. That tweet alone the advertisement. I dont understand how weve gotten to this place where the president thinks that we think that the only hotels that exist in the entire world and the entire country to host these meetings are his hotels. But the u. S. Is a very big country. We have many beautiful hotels, great hotels, big hotels. I do feel bad for marco rubio, he got over his skis to defend this and, boy, the president just comes back and cancels it, you know, and admits the whole thing was a problem. But, of course, it was a problem and there some something to think about here. The fact that he did this, this provocation, in the middle of a gathering impeachment storm says something about the president s mentality and the situation that his entire staff is dealing with. When, how do you handle a principal like this . If youre mulvaney, just imagine trying to defend what is basically indefensible . And the way you to it is basically if youre Richard Nixon and put the im not a crook on a campaign tshirt, right . Thats basically what were seeing here. Admit it, go hard at it, say so what . Embas whats the big deal . Everyone does it. But of course we tonight. Heres Mick Mulvaney what he said yesterday, that the president was surprised at the level of pushback he received for his doral plan. At the end of the day, you know, he still considers himself to be in the Hospitality Business and he saw an opportunity to take the biggest leaders from around the world and he wanted to put on the absolute best show, the best visit that he possibly could and he was very comfortable doing that at doral i think were all surprised the level of pushback. I think its the right decision to change, well have to find someplace else and my guess is well find someplace else that the media wont like either for another reason. You say he considers himself in the Hospitality Business. Sure. Hes the president of the United States. Yeah. I mean, you know, jonathan lemire, i saw the simes, this is really where this guy acting like a clown actually people around the white house are saying now, well, you know, he doesnt really consider being president of the United States his first job. He still considers himself to be in the Hospitality Business. I mean, first of all, think about that for a second, if you will, proving once again the guy never wanted never wanted to be elected president , never expected to be elected president if the was a branding exercise that went horribly wrong for donald trump and melania and the entire family. All that being said, here you have, once again, Mick Mulvaney. His stupidity is so insulting either that or his cynicism. You know him. Is he stupid . Is he cynical . When were going to he didnt like doral and he talks really quickly like we cant keep up with his words, does that work in South Carolina, mick . Does that work in the deep south . No. Im from the deep south and i can actually keep up with your words. He goes, you know, the thing that i really so were going to try to find some where else, we wont go to doral, well go to another golf course or another resort which im sure the media wont like that either. Seriously, the stupidity in that. He knows donald trump went out of his way to select his own property, a property thats been failing for several years, a property where they have a bedbug problem, theyre having to settle for bedbugs. A property that for the most part because its in the sumner south florida. I know what sumner south florme florida is like, its hot. There are a lot of empty rooms in doral in south florida in the summer. So this would have accrued to the benefit of donald j. Trump. Hospitality guy i guess were supposed to call him instead of president of the United States. Its all corrupt, its unconstitutional, and it is exactly, i read in the New York Times, maybe it was the Washington Post somebody saying this would be like somebody running a country in africa and stealing money out of a gold mine and just putting it in a safe in the president ial office. Thats exactly what this is. And it doesnt matter how fast Mick Mulvaney talks, we can still figure it out. Its really, perhaps, one of the most blatantly corrupt things the most corrupt president in the United States did. Another statistic, doral in june is usually about 37 acc pansy. Ouch. Can i ask you a question . Can i ask you a question . Wow. Im doing a pie chart here. Okay. So thats i think this is about thats a little too big. This is the subset for the 37 . Im wondering, of that 37 , how many of that 37 are bedbugs . Youll have to do further analysis of that, but it mighting a larmight be a huge percentage. June is the beginning of hurricane season. There are a lot of great hotels in this country, maybe not all of them are so close to the Miami International airport where the planes thunder right overhead. It may not always be the most relaxing destination. Thats a bad location. What we saw here is and mulvaney saying the thing about the president viewing himself being in the Hospitality Business is something that you do hear occasionally in the white house, you just dont hear it on the record on Live Television on a sunday talk show. [ laughter ] you know what, lemire, get over it, okay . Okay. This was a moment, though, where republicans did push back. And the final straw was on saturday. Mulvaney took some moderate republicans to camp david. He called in in the room because he heard so much criticism about doral including a lot on fox news from usually supportive hosts and surrogates. And a number of the representatives at camp david expressed their misgivings and said it was a hard thing to defend on top of all the other things they have to defend right now, including the syrian decision and the impeachment inquiry. And that that for the president was the final straw, hes decided to move on. Theyll announce another site in the coming days and i think we should all brace ourselves hell cancel from doral and maybe give it to bedminster. Yes, exactly, bedminster of course we could see rudy walking out before 6 00 p. M. So, you know, that reminds me, we really should talk about republicans who really made a difference here. They did. They had the retreat, they were talking to the president , they spoke up. That was so important. Yeah. For their country that they did that. I saw a tom cole quote, peter king, a couple republicans who support trump who said this just isnt right. This is the wrong call. I think that sends a message, should send a message to all republicans that you can have a positive impact on this president and stop him from driving the car over the if youre not doing him a favor if you do his marco rubio said last week, oh, i think its great. I think its fantastic that the president of the United States is committing an Impeachable Offense and unconstitutional offense and being corrupt and using his position as the president of the United States to bring the g7 to a failing country club. That doesnt do him good. What does him good is when people like peter king or people like tom cole, and others said, wait, no, no, this just isnt right. You cant do this. So still ahead on morning joe, Mick Mulvaney wasnt the only Administration Official through the over the weekend. There was also secretary of state mike pompeo. He had a lot to say on sunday until he didnt. But first, lets go to bill karins with a check on some Severe Weather. Bill. Good morning. Last night during the Dallas Cowboys Philadelphia Eagles game about 15 miles away this tornado dropped from the sky. Its done significant damage. There have been some injuries reported not serious injuries and no fatalities, but what a scary scene just north of dallas. This support around university park. And at least four homes have been destroyed. Home depot has been destroyed. One Elementary School has significant damage and there are at least four schools that have been canceled because of this tornado. So when we get more Daylight Pictures in, well bring them to you. This is what happened in the hit between about 9 00 and 9 15. Theres Downtown Dallas and thats where the tornado was just north of university park. We had Severe Weather rolling through other areas too. Report of one fatality in arkansas where a tree fell on a home and 83 wind damage reports from southern missouri all the way through areas of northern arkansas. What do we have to deal with today . Just fine. Atlanta all the way up through areas of the northeast, pretty typical fall day, cool in the morning, sunshine in the afternoon. But where we have to deal with severe storms will be in the south as we go from houston to areas just south of shieff port all the way through louisiana, mississippi up to memphis. This could have strong winds as we go throughout the day today. Tomorrow one area from central South Carolina, ray laleigh, co be heavy wind moving through. As of now, no fatalities is the headlines from that very serious storm. New york city looking for a beautiful afternoon after an ugly sunday. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. This fall, book two, separate qualifying stays at choicehotels. Com. And earn a free night. Because when your business is rewarding yourself, our business is you. Book direct at choicehotels. Com performance comes in lots of flavors. dramatic orchestra theres the ampedup, overtuned, feedingfrenzyof sheetmetalkind. And then theres performance that just leaves you feeling better as a result. Thats the kind lincolns about. 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We started looking closely that the because Mick Mulvaney in his now famous News Conference where he was discussion the quid pro quo he said one of the reasons they were withholding the aid they were trying to get ukraine to cooperate with what he called an Ongoing Investigation into wrongdoing. He couldnt remember the name of the guy doing it somebody to had to prompt him. Its john durham. Barr has appointed durham to conduct a review of the origins of the russia investigation, and no one is sure what the basis of the review is. But weve learned that the review has expanded. Durham has added staff, hes expanded the timeline. Hes looking that conduct that happened after donald trump was inaugurated the were reporting that hes asked to interview many of the cia analysts who were behind the Intelligence Community assessment that russia attacked the election in 2016 in favor of donald trump. But, ken, i could ask you something . This seems this seems this seems akin to barr conducting investigation about Neil Armstrongs walk on the moon that it wasnt on the moon, instead, it was on a back lot in burbank. I mean, this is for them to even go down this path, they are ignoring the conclusions of Donald Trumps fbi director, Donald Trumps cia director, Donald Trumps director of national intelligence, u. S. Military i mean, you could go tom bossert, the first National Security adviser. Every single intel leader in america, republicans and democrats alike, have all come to the conclusion that it was, in fact, russia, not ukraine, who tried to interfere with american democracy. Yeah. And to be clear, joe, its not 100 certain that durham is investigating this wacky Conspiracy Theory that the server is in ukraine. I would be shocked if he was. That could be a scandal actually. He does want to talk to people in ukraine and theres a question about why. In general, people are very puzzled by what this whats going on here. Because, even though theres a lot of questions about barr, most people in the Legal Community i talked to have a lot of regard for durham. Durham was hired by eric holder in the Obama Administration to investigate the question of cia torture. And he goes back to the Whitey Bulger case in boston. Hes got a sterling reputation. Nonetheless, hes been going around the world interviewing people in countries and the only template i can find for what theyre doing is its the George Papadopoulos conspiracy tour. I spoke to western intelligence official who said theres no secrets here. Theyre talking about exactly the things youve been reading in right wing media which is george pop apadopoulos saying h was set up and it was a deep state plot. Durham is interviewing fbi officials who are involved in the early stages of this investigation hunting for signs of bias. But, he hasnt interviewed any of the key officials, although he says he wants to talk to former cia john brannan, he hasnt interviewed comey, rose ebb ste rosenstein. Those cia analysts had to hire their own lawyers because no ones sure whether this is a criminal investigation or not. It is a criminal investigation, whats the allegation of wrongdoing . No one i talked to can answer that, guys. I tell you, yes, people are vouching for durham. But people were vouching for barr as well, a guy who i personally believe will be remembered as, perhaps, the most corrupt attorney general in the history of the United States of america. All these assurances mean nothing, especially when hes going around and not only going around the world apparently chasing conspiracy theories, whether its whether its off of the internet or whether its from papadopouloss mind, but hes also trying to get documents from the cia. Hes trying to get intel documents that the cia should not give up for a thousand different reasons. You have you have the president of the United States pressuring the attorney general whos now pressuring an investigator to go around and to do things that have not that have never been done before. And that is go in and ask the cia to reveal things they shouldnt reveal. Thats right. You know, people forget that donald trump empowered william barr with his extraordinary authority to demand any classified document he wants in connection with this. And youre absolutely right, theres a lot of unease at the cia and disquiet about the notion of federal prosecutors going over and rooting in their files. Not because they think they did anything wrong, but because these are sources and methods. Some of the most highly classified documents and secrets in our government. And they are kept to a small set of people for a reason. Its a needtoknow situation. And theyre question what is the need for john durham and his prosecutors to go over and talk to them about that . The absence of any allegation of wrongdoing . And what is their expertise . And, in fact, some person said to me john durham is going around the world talking to foreign intelligence services, how does he know hes not being lied to . Does he have a counterintelligence visual with him . Theres no evidence that he does. The cia does that for a living. They evaluate whether theyre being lied to when they talk to foreign intelligence services. A federal prosecutor really doesnt have that expertise. A lot, a lot of questions here, guys. You know, mika, we republicans back when i was in the party, we would criticize democrats, always bring up the church commission, talk about how they made it so much harder for the professionals who were in the cia and the fbi and in our Intel Services to do their job. Anything the democrats ever did pales in comparison to the war, the constant warfare that donald trump is inflicting on the cia, the fbi, the dni. And these lets be very clear here, these are the people who protect our country from future attacks. Whether its from homegrown terrorism, whether its white supremacists, islamic radicals. But instead of doing their job, they are being investigated because the president remains obsessed with a fact that everybody knows, that the russians tried infiltrate american democracy in 2016 and get him elect zbled. Thank you very much. Hillary clinton waeds into the 2020 race and suggests russia is targeting someone with their sites on the white house, and its not donald trump. Well be joined by a Senior Adviser for clintons 2016 president ial Campaign Next on morning joe. Tons 2016 president ial Campaign Next on morning joe. I get it all the time. Have you lost weight . Of course i have ever since i started renting from national. 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Senator and president ial candidate Bernie Sanders got an endorsement from new york congressman Alexandra Ocasio cortez in a rally that drew 26,000 people. But the news from a new poll in iowa is with mayor Pete Buttigieg who has surged to the top tier of the candidates in iowa after his october debate performance. Slow and steady. According to the newest Suffolk University usa poll out this morning, former Vice President joe biden, senator Elizabeth Warren and Pete Buttigieg are statistically tied for first place all sitting within the polls 4. 4 margin of air yooar. Biden and warren are one point appoint, 18 to 17 . Pete buttigieg is up to 13 . Bernie sanders remains unchanged since the summer at 9 falling to fourth place. Tom steyer, Tulsi Gabbard, Kamala Harris, and Amy Klobuchar are in a fourway tie for sixth place. Jo joining us now or adrienne elrod. What do you make of this poll and especially mayor pete . Well, mika, mayor pete definitely had a strong debate last week and i think were now seeing that bounce from the debate reflected in this poll. Mayor pete has been laying the groundwork in iowa for months. Hes got a strong team there, a solid operation, some of the best operatives in the business. Hes sit twonting on 23. 5 billf the we know he had one of the strongest fundraising quarters that day after the debate in the is good news for him. I think a lot of people have been speculating, including myself, that theres got to be somebody else who will seep into that top three, top four status of tier one candidates. Were now seeing that person at least in iowa, that person being mayor pete. If you talk to anybody whos been in iowa, reporters covering iowa, Campaign Operatives from other campaigns, they will tell you that the buzz on the ground, the person whos getting the most buzz in iowa and has been since the debate and even before the debate has been mayor pete. So big news for him and his campaign and, like you said, mika, slow and steady. Thats where you want to be as a candidate. Thats what were seeing with mayor pete. So, nick confess sore,rore, put the numbers back up. I want you to look at the bottom of the list. Of those four people, biden, warren, buttigieg, sanders, any of those four people, if you just look at historical trends in the past, any four of those people could win iowa. Right now Bernie Sanders less likely than the others, but ive seen people come from behind and surprise even more than where bernie is right now. Hes got the money and the organization. But think about this. What if warren comes in fourth place in iowa . What if biden comes in fourth place . Yes, theres an excitement looking at the top, but this almost reminds me of English Premier League football. You wonder how the person in the fourth doesnt get relegated as they move on quickly to new hampshire. How to refer from a fourth place finish in iowa, and thats going to happen to one of these first four strong candidates. We see it over and over again, the lower tier candidates who try to hold on until that test, until that moment hoping against hope something might happen. But once these primaries and caucuses start, it gets brutal extremely quickly and conditioned dates, if they survive that long, fall out quickly. I think this race is basically actually somewhat static and unexciting and has been for a while in the sense that the secondtier candidates have not moved very much. Buttigieg is one exception. Warren has climbed steadily, obviously. But i havent seen anything that makes me think that the fundamental array of this race is really changing in a big way. I think, yeah, buttigieg is climbing up in iowa in this poll. If he could pull off a top three finish in iowa, yeah, that could be a big deal. But what we see instead is that the race clarifies at that point and it becomes a smaller list of potential candidates. I want to be ask elise really quickly, i think it the surprise for a lot of people is that the candidate thats really not get the traction that a lot of people thought she would get is Kamala Harris down at 3 , tied with tied in sixth place. Whats going on there . Why has she why after after connect and going up, whats happened over the past few months . Kamala harris really came out of the gate strong with i think incredible launch that was just a topcaliber event and great crowd in oakland, california. But since then she just hasnt been able to get momentum after having a moment. You look at that first debate and when she had her moment up against joe biden, it just kind of fizzled out a bit and it ended up turning against her somewhat. And then in the last debate you look at she just is playing around in, you know, kind of small potatoes arguing with Elizabeth Warren over banning donald trump from twitter. And she just hasnt been able to come out with a message that really is driving her candidacy where you understand this is why senator harris is in it. And then you look at you look at Bernie Sanders, though, what i would like to ask adrienne, given your experience going up against Bernie Sanders in iowa, do you think that his fundraising couldnt be better right now but do you think that he should be worried and his campaign should be concerned . Look, i will never ever in my entire life especially after 2016, underestimate Bernie Sanders to the your point, elise, he has a significant amount of cash on hand. Hes raising donations in maul amounts small amounts. That means can he go back to the donors time and time again and say please give me another 15, please give me another 20. Thats the kind of fundraising operation that you want in a president ial campaign. It sustains you. It means you can stay in probably as long hes wants to. I dont think he needs to necessarily have a top three finish in iowa. He needs to do well in some of the early states, but hes going to be in this for the long haul. I would certainly never underestimate him and i think his campaign knows hes got the infrastructure and the fund raising to stay in this as long as he needs to. So Hillary Clinton suggests that 2020 candidate congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard may be the favorite of the russian government. In a recent interview, clinton who did not mention gabbard by name said that russia has, quote, got their eye on somebody whos currently in the democratic primary and are grooming her to be the thirdparty candidate. After saying the unnamed democratic candidate was the favorite of the russians, clinton lashed out at former Green Party Candidate jill stein stating that assuming jill stein will give it up which she might not because shes also a russian asset, shes a russian asset totally. They know that they cannot win without a thirdparty candidate. Stein responded via twitter writing, its a shame hrc is peddling conspiracy theories. You can slander progressives as russian assets but you cant hide the fact that the dnc sabotaged sanders and elevated trump to set stage for hrc. Gabbard hit back with a series of tweets writing hillary and her gang of rich powerful elite are going after me to send a message to you, shut up, tow the line, are be destroyed. But we the people will not be silenced. Gabbard also pushed back on claims that they is planning a thirdparty run in 2020. So, adrienne a lot town pack here. A lot town pack the unpack. And you would wonder why Hillary Clinton would attack somebody who is struggling in the polls. But secondly to call jill stein a russian asset, asset, that has a very specific meaning. She should have just done what we conservatives used to call russian apoll gifts and whogist call the president , a useful idiot. Its one thing to call somebody a useful idiot, its another thing to call them an asset. Why did she do that . The point that she was making, of course, is that the russia Propaganda Machine, whether Tulsi Gabbard is even that aware of it, the russia Propaganda Machine has been propelling her, lifting her up since she announced her candidacy. We also know that there are pro putin donors here in the United States, american donors who have been giving to her campaign. So i think Hillary Clinton is giving a very valid, very important warning to all of us that weve got to be mindful of the fact that russia knows theyre only going to win this election, i say they are going to win this election, because they want to win this election by reelecting donald trump by either propping up a thirdparty candidate and or suppressing the democratic vote. Whether or not Tulsi Gabbard is aware of this, whether she has complete knowledge of whats happening, the russians are propping her up. And, you know, joe, i remember in 2016 early in the summer of 2016 when we started realizing russias influence on the campaign a lot of people chocked this up as were making up conspiracy theories, we dont know what were talking about. We didnt feel validated until the intelligence agencies came out on that infamous day with the access Hollywood Tape and the day that John Podestas emails were released. When the joint intelligence committees came out way statement saying we know for a fact that russias influencing this election. So i think shes giving us a very important warning right now that we need to take notice. Again, whether its hillary making these claims, other people, these are the things we have to Pay Attention to because donald trump only got 46 of the vote in 2016, hes not going to get reelected without a thirdparty candidate. Adrienne elrod, thank you very much. Coming up, President Trump has insisted hes bringing u. S. Troops home from the endless wars in the middle east. But it turns out the troops that are leaving Northern Syria may not be going very far at all. We have new reporting on that. Back in two minutes. We have new reporting on that. Back itwn o minutes. When you shop for your home at wayfair, you get more than Free Shipping. You get everything you need for your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, ill take that. Wait honey, no. 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At the end of the day he still considers himself to be in the Hospitality Business and he saw an opportunity to take the biggest leaders from around the world and he wanted to put on the absolute best show, the best visit that he possibly could and he was very comfortable doing that at doral. Welcome back to morning joe. Its monday, october 21st. Still with us we have White House Reporter to the Associated Press, jonathan lemire. Political writer the New York Times, nick confessore. Former aide to the george w. Bush white house and state department elise jordan. And, joining the conversation, former republican strategist steve schmidt. And usa today opinion columnist and former Senior Adviser for the House Oversight and government reform committee, kurt joins us. Hi, steve. Its fascinating that the president of the United States still considers himself to be in the Hospitality Business and saw an opportunity. Yeah. He saw an opportunity to make money. But theres into way you can make an argument that he saw an opportunity to really take these guys and women to the best place in america because its just not. Its not even it wouldnt be on the top ten list of places to go in south florida. Probably not even that area code. Its been struggling over the past but now that hes canceling, hes still advertising it as president of the United States. I know. Lets just talk about it. Jonathan lemire, the fact is as you know from reporting, doral has been losing money for the past several years. They have had a bedbug infestation, theyve been sued for bedbugs. As you said, 37 occupancy in june. So this is a hotel thats twothirds empty in june. Its way too hot. Planes are its right by the airport. Planes are going overhead all the time. It actually, unlike where bush took everybody, i think it was in 07, its one of the worst places i could imagine for a g7 summit and yet the president still trying to push and advertise doral despite all the problems that be its had. Most of his properties in the United States have suffered financially since he took office with the notable exception with his hotel in washington, d. C. Which has become a favorite destination of foreign governments and officials trying to curry favor for the white house. Yes, part of the issue here with the doral, part of the reason why republicans over the weekend made it very clear to the white house that they were not going to defend this is that there was no sense of there was no sense of the Selection Process and a growing suspicion that the fix was in. When mulvaney was pressed on other sites, he couldnt name any. He said one was in utah and one was in hawaii and one would require guests to have oxygen maskss whi masks, which is unclear what that is. I assume about altitude. But from the beginning the president was going to steer this event to doral, it had been in the works for months. He wanted he saw it as an opportunity to boost his property. He saw it as an opportunity to host World Leaders at one of his many properties. And he saw perhaps a chance that he could, as we know, hes been speculating over and over that the g7 should return to the g8 and that russia, namely Vladimir Putin, should get a seat at the table again. There are people around the president who thought that case could be made most effectively if the president was doing so from his home turf. But had say moment where republicans, and there have not been many moments like this in the last couple weeks we have seen republicans stand up to him both on g7 and of course the situation in syria. So it will be interesting to see as the impeachment inquiry grows whether republicans will feel more and more comfortable doing that. You know, steve schmidt, because things happen so quickly its easy to become numb to all of this. Its easy to forget that just a month or two ago donald trump had his Vice President go and basically steal 100,000, 200,000 from the u. S. Treasury and transfer that money directly into trumps irish resort, his resort in ireland despite the fact it was on other side of the country from where his meetings were. We of course we have seen the records, the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars that the United States air force shoveled into Donald Trumps bank account. Deciding sudden that i they were going to stop at an airport a failing airport that was right by, once again, one of Donald Trumps resorts so they could all go over and stay there. This is, again, this is what you would expect from a thirdworld country chose corrupt leader decided to just steal gold from the treasury and put it into his his personal safe in his president ial office. This is Banana Republic material and it is so, so sleazy. It sure is. The corruption is just unbelievable. If you look back to the republican convection, joe, when we talked about it at the time, the chants of lock them up, what i said about it at the time was it was Banana Republicism. And the decent from republicans into Banana Republic has been astonishing fast and the lack of outrage by elected member of congress properly exercising their constitutional oversight response sablts ju responsibilities is alarming. The reason he feels empowered do this is because no one has objected to it until now. And so the behavior that were seeing from the president continues to worse ebbn. It continues to worse earn because its been abetted by the complicity of silence from people who swear an oath to defend the constitution of the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic. I think its significant that last week we saw an oped from the former head of the special operations command, fourstar retired admiral William Mcraven where he said very directly, he said the president is a threat to the American Republic. As we look at the chaos hes sonde around t sewn around the world, here at home, these are the days as we get ready to enter the democratic nominee who will give us Something Better hopefully. President trumps acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney still trying to clean up his mess. The comments about why the Trump Administration actually withheld aid to ukraine for weeks. During an appearance on Fox News Sunday, mulvaney continued to walk back his remarks last week about a quid pro quo arguing that reporters reporters had misinterpreted his very clear comments. Why did you say in that briefing that President Trump had ordered a quid pro quo quid pro quo that investigating the democrats, that aid to ukraine depended on investigating the democrats . Whyd you say that . Thats what people said that i said. Heres what i said, ill say it again and hopefully people will listen this time. There were two reasons that we held up the aid. Weve talked about this at some length. The first one was the rampant corruption in ukraine. President was also concerned about whether or not other nations, specifically european nations, were helping with foreign aid to the ukraine as well. I did then mention in the past the president had mentioned to me from time to time about the dnc serve. He mentioned the dnc server publicly. He even mentioned it to president saturday lens skip in the phone call, but it wasnt expe connected to the aid. I think thats where people got sidetracked. You were asked by jonathan karl, you were asked about a quid pro quo and you said that happens all the time. Reporters will use their language all the time. My language never said quid pro quo. I never said there was a quid pro quo because there isnt. Chris, youve been in these briefings, you know how back and forth it is and how rapid fire it is. Look to things on the ground that you can certify and what should put this issue to bed is that the money flowed without any connection whatsoever to the dnc server. But you steve schmidt, he said people get sidetracked. He specifically on thursday talked about a quid pro quo. He said we werent going to give them anything until and then he listed several things, including, and this is what is just the most troubling. A Conspiracy Theory. A Conspiracy Theory that the dnc server is hiding somewhere in ukraine, who knows, behind a mountain range, behind a vault, who knows where they claim it is. But theyre actually that is an old, discredited Conspiracy Theory that grew up from sort of the same cluttered part of the internet that pizza gate grew up in or this seth rich conspiracy degree up in. Its complete, total nonsense and its been discredited. The u. S. Intelligence community unanimously discredited it. The United States military discredited it. They all said this came out of russia, not ukraine. And, yet, Donald Trumps chief of staff and now his Justice Department are chasing down internet conspiracy theories that everyone knows are not true. Its truly incredible. I mean, we have a long and rich tradition in this country of conspiracy theories, but whats unusual is to hear it being economy cobb echoed by the white house chief staff that hereto for this was the chief adviser to the president of the United States and who sits in an office where life and death decisions are made. So to see him sit there and try to wiggle his way out of what he clearly said in plain english at the News Conference a day or so before is par for the course. But, nevertheless, just equally disturbing. And what i would say about the Conspiracy Theory is that have no doubt that this is believed as stone cold fact by tens of millions of people in this country. We are living in an era where donald trump and his supporters, hissen able his enablers have created to a large extent an alternate reality. And in that alternate reality the server is in ukraine, it is worthy of federal investigations into into what finds it. And i think the important thing is when you were talking earlier about the investigation being conducted by the prosecutor, looking into the origins of the russia inquiry, when you look at the plain transcript of what the president talked to the ukrainian president about with joe biden, i mean, the point of all of this is this if donald trump can abuse his power, abuse his office to try to do that to joe biden, would what that means is he can do that to any person in america. Anyone. And we dont necessarily, i dont think, want to live in a country where we see the mechanism and the power of the state being used by a corrupt person to target political opponents. That is not what is supposed to be happening in a healthy democracy but, alas, it is. And i think its a statement of the distress and unhealthiness of the American Republic in this final quarter of 2019 after three years of donald trump. For sure. Kurt, with Mick Mulvaney as chief of staff also heading up omb and being so clearly involved with these funds that were held up that he was talking about, the shock factor is unbelievable. But wouldnt this be best worked out in oversight through the process of oversight and in order to help us get over it, wouldnt it make sense for Mick Mulvaney to come before congress and answer some questions on the record . Well, of course it would, mika. Heres the bottom line. If theres nothing to hide, if the Trump Administration did nothing wrong, if there is no quid pro quo, as Mick Mulvaney has been unable to articulate for some reason, then theres no reason why she shouldnt come and answer questions before congress and the Oversight Committee as these proceedings continue about impeachment. The reality is this week alone, multiple officials from the omb have been asked to come and testify for the Oversight Committee for this inquiry and we dont know if theyll show up or not. History tells us they probably want. The omb director has been asked to come this week, he hasnt sent a response yet. If there is no nefarious things going on with ukrainend at aid, why not will have people who are in charge of the money at the omb who would know what was directed when and by whom to show up and say there was no order there are was no quid pro quo or interference from the celebration on behalf of ukraine, how difficult is it to show up and do sna . The fact that so many people from the Trump Administration arent willing to come before congress under oath and a shows things tells you theres something there . And it wouldnt be hard if that were the truth, but thats not the truth and its not the truth because we heard very early on at the beginning of this story that it was, in fact, donald trump who passed the message to mill Mick Mulvaney and it was Mick Mulvaney who passed the message to everyone that they were holding up the aid. Secretary of state mike pompeo is accusing House Democrats of leading an unfair impeachment inquiry after barring state Department Leaders from listening to current and former Agency Officials at the center of an investigation. In an interview with plait politico on friday, pompeo accuse democrats of putting state secrets at risk and said the state department has been given little visibility into what is being said by current and former employees. Pompeo said, quote, theyre not letting state Department Lawyers in the room. They have not let state Department Lawyers be a party of these hearings. Thats unheard of. He says thats unheard of. Really . Ive got to im sorry im so confused. I got to just stop right there because, kurt, you know help us out here. Were just this guy went to west point, right . And didnt he good to Harvard Law School . So hes i think hes supposed to be a pretty smart guy. And, yet, it would almost seem that he has some problem with his memory . I dont know if we should call doctors out in kansas or not. But wasnt he a part of the bin Ghazi Committee and didnt he do exactly that repeatedly where attorneys were constantly kept out . I mean, the Washington Post, in fact, reported that four years ago pompeo then republican congressman attended a deposition with the former state Department Official who was not allowed to have counsel present for benghazi. And under the house rules, for all depositions adopted in january before this impeachment inquiry, witnesses may be accompanied at a deposition by personal, nongovernment counsel to advise them of their rights. The rules go on to say that on serves or counsel for the Government Agencies may not attend. And that was adopted in january before the inquiry, kurt. Well, again, this is another case of people in the trump orbit trying to create this alternate reality of what the past actually is. Past, matter of fact, as you pointed out, they actively participated in when they were in control of congress and they were investigating barack obama. The reality is, joe, and you know this from having served in congress and on the committee. You do not want to have a deposition where someones potential superior is in the room with you. Thats going affect testimony. You dont want that type of witness intimidation blat ntly there if Donald Trumps hand picked lawyers are sitting in in a deputy virtion hosition, how you think that testimony will be . If he believed theres not a there there, he would show up right now, testify and he could put this to bed. But theyre not doing that. They have something to hide. They continually attack the process. Trump made this ridiculous assertion the other day on twitter that republicans never issued subpoenas to the Obama Administration. That is ridiculous. Just during the 2016 election cycle they were irk subpoenas. 17 subpoenas in the run up to the election targeting Hillary Clinton. So the idea that this is somehow unprecedented and that democrats are doing something that hasnt been done before, the reality is if anything, theyre just picking up where republicans left off. Yeah, the hypocrisy, elise, should be mind boggling. Its sadly all too predictable and kurt brought up a great point. The fact that youve got pompeo saying, no, no, nobodys going to go over there and testify in a deposition unless one of their state department superiors is breathing down their neck, thats just thats pure i did yois y i d idiocy. He knows they didnt run investigations over there when he was on sonbsessed on benghaz years. One more example of a bad faith argument meant to do little more than distract supporters and put a smoke screen against one of the most corruption administrations ever. Joe, i think that this is even bigger than just an episode of hypocrisy, though. Its another example of how mike pompeo has turned the state department from his Vantage Point into a political operation for the president. And he expects that the state Department Legal is supposed to be providing Legal Counsel to state Department Officials caught up in this impeachment debacle. I remember an era when the state Department Legal, they were doing things like promoting rule of law around the world. They were investigating human rights statutes. They were working with the department of defense. They were concerned with promoting and elevating the rule of law in america. And you hear reports about how secretary pompeo is completely checked out of the state department in terms of pursuing the diplomatic aims of the department because he is so caught up in his own political ambitions. I think this is just yet another example of how pompeo wants to mold the state department for his personal whims and not for the benefit of American National interest. Well, this ones for steve schmidt. Senator Lindsey Graham went from President Trumps one of his most vocal critics during the 2016 campaign to one of his key allies on the hill during his presidency. Weve watched that play out. Well, heres how graham explained his support, sort of their relationship with the president to Jonathan Swann of axios. I just didnt like trump, i didnt like what he said, i didnt like the way he ran his campaign, and i lost. So i made a conscious decision here to try to help him where i can. But to be clear, youve actually sincerely changed your views of his character . Its not just yeah, thats a good question. Ive got know him and i find him to be a handful. I find him to be an equal opportunity abuser of people. But, at the end of the day, he can be very charming and be very gracious and im judging him by his conduct. An abuser of people. Yeah. Okay. Well, he abuses people on both sblieds at leaides. At least he was honest. And in this case, though, unfortunately he also abandoned the kurds, strength end tened t russians, betrayed the israelis, put Vladimir Putin in an incredible position to be the master player in that part of the middle east. And its created a Foreign Policy that he calls american first but it seems to keep actually accruing to the benefit of Vladimir Putin and russia. So it is fascinating that Lindsey Graham could still support him even though hes been harshly critical of him over the past couple weeks. Did i i did think one thing interesting in that interview was that lindsey said that he would remain open on the question of impeachment. That hes not hes not running around saying i will never vote for his impeachment. Well, i guess its reassuring that as somebody who would be a juror that he wouldnt have made up his mind before any facts are presented or before any impeachment documents are in the end filed. But, look, Lindsey Graham is somebody who and you just cant have it both ways here. Its either that he didnt believe any of the things that he used to say, or he doesnt believe any of the things hes saying now. But you cant make the two fit together. When you look at the things he once said about donald trump, the things he once purported to believe in, he has become one of the president s biggest shilsls in the congress. Hes refused to hold him to account time and time again. And the situation that we see in the middle east, the chaos that has been unleashed, the human suffering that will flow from it, this situation will play out not over weeks, but over many, many years. And the reason that its going to affect our National Security so horribly, so badly is because men like Lindsey Graham over the past three years time and time and time again have not done their duty and have given donald trump a pass. And its just as simple as that. You cant look at the inevitable consequence for the accumulation of all the dishonesty, the lying, the transactional politics and just a complete incompetence of it all and then when you get the bad result say, hey, i cant believe this bad thing has happened. Just doesnt work like that in real life. You know, nick, and just to add an exclamation point to that statement, how shameful Lindsey Graham is now telling roiters that reuters that he may be reversion his quote says that trumps policy could succeed on the abandonment of the kurds and the abandonment of the israeli interests, the elevation of isis, syria, and that could succeed he says. I guess everything is possible. It is fascinating to watch as the president pursues a policy that the senator himself has conveyed against in a truly heartbreaking way, in a sincere way as a betrayal of all his beliefs about american Foreign Policy and power to then try and clean it up like mulvaney on the sunday show. Again, i guess you got to do what you got to do to survive in trumps party, but i do wonder if well see next a cleanup of the remark that hes opened on voting for impeachment or has he made his mind up yet . I personally was struck by that and its a reminder that politicians always look for wiggle room. Sow they can gso they can get ahe ahead of what might be coming. Its not surprising that the president is caught in the unfolding of things of his own making that people are wondering what comes next. Thank you both for being on the show this morning. Great have you. Still ahead on morning joe, well be joined by senator chris coons of the Foreign Relations committee. 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Now you can take control of your home wifi and get a notification the instant someone new joins your network. Only with xfinity xfi. Download the xfi app today. I think overall the ceasefire generally seems to be holding. We see a stabilization of the lines, if you will, on the ground. And we do get reports of intermitt ant fires, this and that. That doesnt surprise me. But thats what were picking up and seeing so far. But what did the president call him esperito . Esper ran saturdranza. What does he call the former majority leader of the house, steve . His name is kitchen. Cavern mcgrabling, bth, but him steve . Yes. Defense secretary mark esper, thats his name over the weekend commenting about reports of continued fighting in the area despite the Trump Administrations public statements, Vice President mike pence brokered a, quote, pause in the turkish offensive against the kurds. And not a, quote, ceasefire that. Word is not used anywhere in the joint u. S. turkey statement and the turks have rejected the term as well. Meanwhile, this morning were learning that President Trump may be leaving a small number of troops in northeast syria. In addition to leaving a handful of troops at a base in southern syria, u. S. Officials tell the wall street journal President Trump suspect consideriis consi keep a few hundred troops in northeast syria. They report that a mission of those troops would be to prevent syria and russias advance into the regions oil fields. The troop would also enable the military to retain a foothold in the fight against Islamic State militants. The president appears to have alluded to the idea on twitter friday writing, quote, the u. S. Has secured the oil. Joining us now from the white house, nbc news correspondent hans nichols. Its fascinating, hans, secure the oil. Hes concerned about the oil, not so concerned about those who gave their lives to help us destroy isis. And this deal, lets get in a little deep near this deal that he made with autocrat erdogan, because other reports after that were that erdogan treated donald trump with contempt, wadded up his letter, through it away, said that he would not forget the insult and he was going to do whatever he wanted to do at the end of the day. When erdogan is scheduled to visit here on november 13th, that is going to be a day for the ages. Remember, President Trump hasnt withdrawn that invitation just yet. You know, guys, as to this discussion about oil and northeast syria, youll recall back in february, 2008, there was a massive conflict between Russian Irregular troops, they were mercenaries, but they were russian and u. S. Forces. U. S. Forces through basically everything at these Russian Troops which were going towards the oil field. What was remarkable about this story is not just that some 200 russians were killed by u. S. Planes, theres video of it. It was remashable it didnt get more coverage. I believe that was the week that rob porter was ousted from the white house and made allegation thats was abusing his exwives or there were some personal allegations there. But it was an incredible story that didnt get that much attention. And it isnt clear at the time that the sdf, our kurdish partners there wanted to keep those oil fields. I think thats whats so interesting about the president s tweet, not just the Mark Esperanza stuff and the state department being on different terms of their messaging. Theyve got good coms on that, its impossible to coordinate a coordinated strategy on what your strategy will if youre talking to different people i think you see some of that come out. But, to me, i dont understand how its going work. So the kurds are going to be aligned with assad up north, but assad is not going to get the oil fields in a little bit further south where the u. S. Will keep this force of a couple hundred troops. I dont understand how that works. Thats they need to explain that. All right. Nbcs hans nichols, thank you very much. Joining us now, member of the senate Foreign Relations and judiciary committees, democratic senator chris coons of delaware. He has a new piece in the atlantic magazine entitled the senate must rein in trump. This. Its an important message. And obviously, senator, donald trump has been attacking every ally that has served as a bulwark against autocratic aggression, whether you look at his constant attempts to undermine nato, his constant attempt to undermine democratic allies across europe, and now, of course, his abandonment of the kurds which, in effect, gives Vladimir Putin and russia complete control of that region. I mean, they are they are now the king makers in that part of the middle east. Thats right, joe. What weve heard in terms of expressions ofgraphy conce expressions of grave concern from advisers of this administration and previous administrations is not only is this betrayal of the kurds in northeastern syria something that is a stain on americas record and has unleashed hundreds of hardened isis fighters and has advantaged Vladimir Putin and the murderous regime of say sad and the assad and the iranians, as if that wasnt bad enough, we have to now take a hard look what the other circumstances around the world might lead an impulsive and i experienced president to cut some deal way foreign dictator in pursuit of what he thinks is in americas best interest is but demonstrably not. Whether its a withdraw from nato, withdraw from the southern peninsula, a failure to defend peaceful protests in hong kongtor stand with the people of taiwan if they come under increases pressure. Theres lots of places around the world where the faction of the United States keeps its word and commitments have been critical to regional stability and security and i think this may not be the last time that President Trump stuns all of us with a move of this kind. Senator, well ask you a little further about that in a moment, but first lets get you on the facts on the ground in syria. Weve seen the last couple records the idea there might be a few hundred troops left, there might be shifts to some in iraq. Does that do anything in your mind to stabilize the situation there . It may make it less bad, but frankly the harm that was done first to our reputation cant be undone. Second, the hundreds of isis fighters who have now slipped out of their detention and are unaccounted for, it may prevent that from getting more rapidly worse, but not by much. Because, frankly, as joe said in his leading question, its hard to imagine what it is thats now going to be the circumstances on the ground. Thats not at all clear. How far into syria are the turks going to go . How long will they stay . What sort of control will they exercise . How far north are assads forces backed by russian air power, backed by iranian irregular in the rogc . How far are they going to go pl its critical that he with keep or i base to protects against an east west flow from iraq. But in the northeast, i find it hard to believe that were going to be able to protect those troops if President Trump turns and runs every time he gets barked at by a strong man like erdogan. And you bring up the isis fightse fighters who are unaccounted for. President trump tried to strike a reassuring to be saying theyre not going to come to the United States, theyll be in europe. Let me ask you about that. You mentioned the idea of the u. S. Abandoning its commitents elsewhere and betraying its allies. What message is he send together European Countries where hes saying ice have thats your problem, not ours. I met with an ambassador from a european country where a very lethal isis attack that was planned in raqqa. These are some of our most trusted, longest allies with whom we have fought shoulder to shoulder in afghanistan and iraq and the middle east where we are currently doing important work against terrorism in south africa. This gives pause to all of our allies making them wonder if the president is an isolationist and if he is as ill informed about the middle east as he sounds. Senator, trumps draw dawn down in syria has made the headlines of the news. Did the administration provide any just any occasion to you and your colleagues for that are move . Frankly, no. And frankly what concerns me more is the president saying the reason theyre going saudi arabia is theyre being paid for it. Everything weve seen from President Trump about this region and about these recent decisions is either driven by money or securing oil, our troops are being paid for, or by a profound lack of grasp of the region in its recent history. Bread basket of the middle east, the place where an enormous amount of food has been grown for millennia he describes as lots and lots of sandpy cou. I could go on at great length. For reasons im finding it hard to put my finger on there are is the issue that has caused republicans in the senate to finally stand up and challenge this president , to publicly express disagreement. Mitch mcconnell published a very strong editorial denouncing this ill advised move by President Trump. Im pointing out to them that hes not keeping a Campaign Commitment to bring our troops home, instead, hes increasing the number of our troops that are at great risk by being right in the very center of the iranian saudi conflict and the saudis are not our most reliable ally. Will the Senate Debate a new authorization of military force at umf . We should. We likely wont. Might that happen . No. We should be having many more hearings prtd we have had one about iran. We should have many more hearings about whats happening in syria, whats happening in the saudi kingdom and region. All of this is connect and, frankly, right now these moves about President Trump hands territory and strong some of our most difficult opponents, russia, iran, and obviously Bashar Al Assad in the is one of the reasons i continue to be enthusiastic about joe biden as a candidate for president. He would restore and stabilize a lot of our position on the world stage. He has deep knowledge of these areas, hes been to these countries dozens of times. He would not be making these same mistakes. Senator, imagine that the next president is still President Trump. A second term of President Trump. Were talk now on syria. But when you look around the world at our commitments, at our posture, at our alliances, what is your worry about what a second trump term would look like in terms of the president s priorities and what he would do with nato or with south korea . I am greatly concerned that President Trump sees the value of our troops being on the Korean Peninsula or in western europe solely in terms of funding. That he harangues and harasses and pressures our allies as if there is some decades old unpaid bar tab for the security and stability of the world. The American People have demonstrably benefitted from our alliances in nato, in east asia, and in the endopacific. That say lot of what has produced prosperity, stability over the last seven decades. We designed and built a world order and our troops around the world have played an absolutely central role in making that possible. I do think President Trump will continue to destabilize these alliances. He is achieving the longterm strategic goals of xi jinping and Vladimir Putin, threatening our withdrawal from south korea and japan and profoundly weakening the Nato Alliance that so many fought so hard to strengthen and to stabilize in the recent years. So let me ask you, senator, the New York Times just released a story today saying that donald trump has ordered and quietly pulled 2,000 troops out of afghanistan over the past year, even though theres been no peace deal with the taliban. Obviously the troops are there for one purpose, one main purpose, and that is to stop the next 9 11 from happening, to stop the spread of terrorism across that region, to stop them there before they start blowing up buildings in the United States again. Whats your whats your reaction to the president now moving to get us out get us out of afghanistan and strike a deal with the taliban . Well, you know, frankly there is broadly in the United States war reweariness. And trump talks about bringing our troops home. There are two different ways to resolve a conflict. One as we just saw in syria, abrupt, ill conceived, ill planned, it leaves our allies puzzled or weakened and it encourages our adversaries and puts our troops at risk. The other would be to leave in a measured and thoughtful way having achieved some stabilization and some Peace Agreement. Thats whats being attempted in afghanistan. But to draw down our troops by several thousand when the taliban have not only not been able to come to a Peace Agreement back up where the president is fumbling around about inviting them to camp david for a reality tvstyle surprise reveal meeting between the taliban and the president of afghanistan was a striking misstep. This is just one more reminder that President Trump is the very first president in our history with no Previous Service either military or elected to undergurd his leadership and how to conduct Foreign Policy. He willfully ignores the advice of diplomats and generals. Joe biden as pred would be a fundamentally different leader. Someone who with rely on the advice of seasoned and senior professionals, someone who has visited troops in rack and afghanistan dozens of times and who understands and takes seriously the enormous amount of sacrifice that has been made. He would not draw down and abandon afghanistan without some clear path forward. Think the contrast between these two leaders couldnt be more stark. Since you brought up joe biden twice, i need to ask you, do you think that hunter biden should have been in ukraine working for an Energy Company while joe biden was going over there being responsible to clean up the country . Well, lets be clear. Everyone who has looked at the facts of these allegations has concluded that joe biden did nothing wrong. That he was carrying out the policy of the Obama Administration, of the eu. All right, senator, i agree with that and of course, as i say repeatedly, the wall street journal has said that he has done nothing wrong. I just wonder if you agree with ed luce with the Financial Times that his nepotism. His son who had no skill sets that would have allowed him to be on the board of an Energy Company or consultant to an Energy Company to take money out of ukraine, should he have been there or was that a mistake . It was a mistake for him to be flying over on the Vice President s plane to china to get money from a Business Venture in china . Was that a mistake inl receipt stro inspect . Beau has spoken on that and said he it was. Hunter had the punter. Im sorry, forgive me. Im made the mistake myself. Huntser has spok hunter has spoken to this in an interview where i thought he was remarkably forthcoming and expressed ways in which this has become a distraction for his father in running for the president of the United States. I think to make a no, theres no comparison. No, no, theres no comparison. To have an honest conversation about this would just have to put things in context. And it just doesnt help. And its, you know, the kind of thing that trump feasts upon, manipulates, and then spus out a spews out and uses this as his background for crimes hes committing with our Foreign Policy. But i think if we cant have an honest conversation about whether or not its okay for, you know, i dont think was a good idea. But it was not illegal and its been investigated. But i think we need to be honest that agree. Thats where it all began. Its not a good idea. And also that it was very, very bad judgment. All right. Well, well leave it there. Senator chris coons, thank you so much for being with us. We greatly appreciate it. Coming up, an off the rails Job Interview likened to a saturday night live skit. We have some of the scenes described in a new book by former Veterans Affair secretary David Shulkin. Well sask him about his 15monh tenure in a twitter twierg firi President Trump when morning joe comes right back. Ump when joe comes right back. Ou only pr what you need. Wow. Thanks, zoltar. How can i ever repay you . Maybe you could free zoltar . Thanks, lady. Taxi only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Woman im here, and suddenly my migraine takes me somewhere else, where theres pain and nausea. But excedrin pulls me back in a way others dont. And it relieves my symptoms fast for real migraine relief. And it relieves i had no idea that myast grandfatherfe changing moment for me. Was a federal judge in guatemala. He was an advocate for the people. A voice for the voiceless. Bring your Family History to life like never before. Get started for free at ancestry. Com i also want to express our appreciation for secretary shulkin who is implementing the dramatic reform throughout the va. Its got to be implemented. If its not properly implemented it will never mean the same thing. But i have no doubt it will be properly implemented. Right, david . Better be, david. Well never have to use those words. Well never have to use those words on our david. That was President Trump reforming to the former secretary of Veterans Affairs shulkin a mere month before his firing. David shulkin joins us now. Hes the author of the new book it shouldnt be hard to serve your country. I love that title. Our broken government and the plight of veterans. Thank you so much for being on the show. So mr. Secretary, its just absolute madness. I was just reading a politico novel written by guy snodgrass the speechwriter for general mattis. He talked about their first meeting for the pentagon. They were supposed to go around the room and talk about where u. S. Forces were located across the globe. Instead all donald trump wanted to talk about was macrons handshake and a military parade in washington. Im sure you felt with this erratic behavior an awful lot yourself. He always carried the conversation and you never knew exactly where it was going to go. Talk about your book. I wrote the book for two reasons. One is i believe strongly as most americans do that our veterans deserve the very best care that can be delivered in this country and the very best services. And frankly the va as great an organization it is, still needs to improve to make sure we deliver on that commitment and that promise to our veterans. And the second reason i wrote the pook is i talk about the political environment today and what its like to serve to try to help improve services and how toxic this environment is making it so difficult to be able to fulfill the mission those who also come to government try to do. Secretary, you write in the book that President Trumps soninlaw and Senior Advisor Jared Kushner came up with the idea to close poor performing Veterans Affairs hospitals which you say was an effort to perhaps privatize the entire system. Walk us through that moment in your tenure. Well, i want to be clear i think the president does have veterans best interests at heart and felt there were good vas and bad vas. In any big system youre going to have well functioning hospitals and some that arent well functioning. And the president said why dont we close those that arent working well. I had to describe to the president that we couldnt simply do that. That would require congress involvement and that was a legislative issue. I think what we were doing at that point in the administration was just a lack of understanding what was an executive decision and what were legislative issues. I had to walk them through that process. I of course had been in government in the Obama Administration so i was familiar with that so i think they were just learning the new ways of government. Secretary, in the book you address your controversies surrounding your travel to europe and your wifes travel to europe. But you argue you were made into somewhat of a victim because other Trump Officials also had wives accompanying them on trips. Do you regret that you had your wife go to europe . Do you regret that became a narrative of your service, your european trip . Well, i certainly regret anything that took the focus away from being on veterans. Thats why i was there, its what i strongly believe in. The whole reason i wept to work every day. And so any issue that takes away from that is certainly something that i regret. But, you know, lets take a look at what happened. My wife was an official invitee, as a physician she was invited by the United Kingdom to come and visit. That trip was completely preapproved by the va ethics officials, by everyone at va, by the white house, pie the state department. This trip had been planned months ahead and they had actually insisted that my wife get a passport from the u. S. Government to be able to go. So we followed everything that was properly done, and there was nothing done that shouldnt have been done. But, however, in this environment in washington that was used as a way to attack me personally, to take away my authority to be able to manage the va. And part of the reason why i think that people use this in a political sense to shorten the length of my tenure as secretary. Secretary, lets speak here about the policy substance you were speaking of earlier. We have had a tugofwar in this country in washington for a decade or more over the va and a push to privatize it, put it in the hands of private companies and not have a public institution. Where has it been now, has it been successful and are we going to see this at the end of this term or the end of this second trump term a full effort to privatize the va . First of all i think its essential we have a strong veterans system. Its what the veterans want, but just as important its part of our countrys responsibility to take care of those who have raised their hands to defend us. And if we stop having a strong va system i dont think we should just expect people will continue to volunteer to defend us, to be injured in the line of duty and then not to feel that were there for them when they come back. So thats why i feel so strongly that we shouldnt be privatizing the va. Now, we do need to work closely with the private sector. We do need help from private hospitals and private doctors to be able to fulfill that mission, and thats something that i was driving strongly to. A strong va system but working closely with the private sector. But there are many people who were working hard just to make sure that the va system wouldnt be strong and thats the privatation effort. I think what were seeing today people with saying theyre not in favor of privatization. But if you look at the current policies that potentially could lead to a deterioration in the strength of the va. And thats something we all have to be looking for and be individual l vigilant to make sure that doesnt happen. Former va secretary David Shulkin, thank you very much. And still ahead Mick Mulvaney is still trying to cleanup the mess. The comments that he made about ukraine, insisting that he didnt admit to a quid pro quo with usa even though thats what he did and he says it happens all the time. Plus President Trump reverses his course on his plan to hold next years g7 summit at his miami resort. Your watching morning joe. Were back in 90 seconds with a packed 8 00 a. M. Hour. Onds with packed 8 00 a. M. Hour. One. 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Tell your doctor about your medicines and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. I was involved with the process by which the money was held up temporarily, okay. Three issues for that. The corruption in the country, whether or not other countries were participating in support of ukraine and whether or not they were cooperating in an Ongoing Investigation with our department of justice. There were two reasons that we held up the aid. Okay, three issues for that. There were two reasons that we held up the aid. Wow. What i find so remarkable is that when these people come out and lie on national television, they lie through their teeth. They then are arrogant about it and say i hope they listen next time. We heard you the first time and you lied about it the second time. And this happens again. Its like when mulvaney went in front of the press corp the first time and said this happens all the time and get over it. So this is what i love about the incompetence surrounding the white house and actually the reelection campaign. The guy who actually made a statement in the course of moving donald trump a lot closer to being impeached, possibly removed from office, that guy and his ignorant words get over it now being sold as tshirts. This is like your so let me get this straight, your selling the evidence thats going to lead you to impeachment to even make money off of that . I understand your foolishness with doral that you woke up and smelled the cat food on that one, that it was unconstitutional and going to get you impeached. Thank god we dont have to explain to Boris Johnson and all the bedbugs very well put together but the doral bedbugs are killers especially in the summer. But anyway so theyre arrogant about their stupidity and also arrogant and trying to market off the evidence thats going to lead to donald trump being impeached. Only the third president in the history of the United States to be impeached. So on thursday there were three reasons why the white house held up aid to ukraine. Pie sunday as you saw it was down to two. The missing link of course when Mick Mulvaney openly acknowledged last week a quid pro quo. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. It is monday, october 21st. With us we have White House Reporter for the Associated Press jonathan lemire, Political Writer nick, former aid to the Bush White House and state department elise jordan, and covering National Security and intelligence, ken dilanian. Jonathan lemire, lets start of course pie talking about the new york yankees failing to make the world series for this entire decade, since the 19 teens but with that as a backdrop with everything we do for the next several weeks talk about the level of concern and level of disparage inside the white house on mulvaneys monstrous mistake admitting publicly the quid pro quo, Rudy Giulianis ongoing troubles, his tangled business relationships that seem to be hes looking for love in all the wrong places. Talk about how the toxic stew that this is creating and the concern inside the white house about how this could lead to Donald Trumps impeachment and more . First, joe, on the yankees, the most Important News of the morning. Youre right this is the first decade since the 19 teens when they did not appear in the world series. They spent 2 billion on players this decade without appearing in the world series. They have now gone 18 of the last 19 seasons without winning a world series. And theres this stat i bought statistics with me. In the decade that just ended from 2010 to 2019 they had the winningest record in the regular season but did not make a world series, the first Major League Baseball team in history to not do that. Heart break for yankees and their fans. In terms of the white house, yes, theres rising angst in the building on a few different issues. The acting chief of staffs disastrous News Conference and that is how its being viewed in every corner of trumps world is still having ramifications now. Theyve had to cleanup theyve had to reverse themselves on g7 as you saw. No longer having it at the president s golf course in doral just outside of miami, florida. The quid pro quo issue which mulvaney laid out on thursday, tried to cleanup in a statement later that day, tried again over the weekend in the sunday show appearances, you know, has led a lot of people in the Trump White House wondering perhaps if he will not be long for his job. We saw immediately the personal attorney jay sekulow distance himself from what he said. And the Justice Department in a rare move they distanced themselves from what mulvaney said. There have been people in the building already unhappy with how mulvaney was handling the impeachment inquiry and this has thrown gasoline on that fire. But the problem is this, the people we talked to over the weekend that mulvaneys job at least for now is safe not because the president is happy with him because he isnt, but they dont have any replacements. This is white house from the beginning has struggled to hire and retain talented white house officials, people to work in the administration. Theres no short list now. Theres no sense that mulvaney is going to lose his job anytime soon. Well, i think this from the patterns that weve seen one can deduce this white house operates on vacancies. Same with the state department. The more jobs that are not filled the more of that void trump can fill on his own. Heres mulvaney sunday trying to walk back his remarks from last week about the quid pro quo arguing that reporters actually reporters had misinterpreted his comments. Why did you say in that briefing that President Trump ordered quid pro quo that investigating the democrats, that aid to ukraine depended on investigating the democrats, whyd you say that. Heres what i said and ill say it again and hopefully people will listen this time. There were two reasons that we held up the aid. We talked about this at some length. The first one was the rampant corruption in ukraine. The president was also concerned whether or not other nations specifically european nations were helping with foreign aid to ukraine as well. I did mention in the past the president had mentioned to me from time to time about the dnc server. Hes even mentioned it to president zelensky in the phone call, but it wasnt connected to the aid, and i think thats why people got sidetracked this weekend at that press conference. There was not a quid pro quo. You described a quid pro quo and you said that happens all the time. And again reporters will use their language all the time. I never said it was a quid pro quo because there isnt. Again, chris, youve been in these briefings. You know how back and forth it is, how rapid fire it is. Look to the fact on the ground, things you can actually certify. And what should put this issue to bed is that the money flowed without any connection whatsoever to the dnc server. So that was him yesterday. Here again is what mulvaney said very clearly on thursday. Did he also mention to me in the past the corruption related to the dnc server, absolutely. No question about that. But thats it, thats why we held up the money. I was involved with the process pie which the money was held up temporarily, okay . Three issues for that. The corruption of the country, whether or not other countries were participating in support of ukraine, and whether or not they were cooperating in an Ongoing Investigation with our department of justice. Thats completely legitimate. All right, so of course, elise, i mean theres rank stupidity here. I dont know whether Mick Mulvaney is the one so stupid or he believes Trump Supporters are so stupid he thinks the rubes, he considers them to be rubes, the rubes in his mind will just let it pass. But he said a couple of things of course in the press conference thursday, he said it happens all the time. Thats a lie. He was called out on the lie and so humiliated with that lie he did want even repeat it on sunday. And then on sunday i found it fascinating he said oh, were talking about the server, everybodys talking about the dnc server, right . Well, actually, no. Only conspiracy theorists are talking about a dnc server being hidden mysteriously somewhere by an oligarch in ukraine. Nobody believes that to be the truth. That is Conspiracy Theory, and yet he is saying thats the quid pro quo. This Conspiracy Theory that was disprove by conservatives and liberals a very long time ago. Joe, its just been really disappointing to watch Mick Mulvaney behaving the way that he is. I previously thought very highly of him and his character and his intentions in public policy, and this has just been a really disappointing episode where i am not sure what hes doing following these conspiracy theories. I thought he was a more seriousminded man and a more honest man. And it just, frankly, is disappointing to watch him swept up in can i ask you whats he doing . Why is he doing this . There can be no position worth this . You know, he supposedly was a small government conservative. Hes now proudly serving with the biggest spending republican in the history of this republic or any republic. I mean, biggest deficits ever, biggest debt ever. The trade deficit is expanding, the number of Illegal Immigrants that are being caught on the border far beyond all possible doubt where they ever were theres a really disappointing oneword answer i think and its called power, proximity to power and what people are willing to give up to stay close to the power even in an acting capacity which i would add how long is that acting title . Is he ever going to be made the official chief of staff . You hear from people who have worked in this white house that Jared Kushner is the de facto chief of staff. And i cant imagine why it is worth it for Mick Mulvaney to stick around and debase himself like this when you have got Jared Kushner in the wings. Jared kushner calling the shots. It is debasing is a great example of it. Hes debased himself. In a big way. And when donald trump leaps to him which i think is going to be sooner rather than later after the next election, Mick Mulvaney will find himself like so many other trump employees, he wont be able to find a job around town because hes proven himself to be a liar time and time again and proven to do anything just to have the spotlight on him for a couple of seconds. There is such a sleaze factor and goes pack to what rick wilson has always said, anything trump touches dies. That extends to reputations of people who work for him. Still ahead on morning joe. I could actually run by business. I could actually run my business and run government at the same time. I dont like the way that looks, but i would be able to do that if i wanted to. Id be the only one that would be able to do that. A flashback there to a donald trump just a few days before inauguration. Well have the latest on his push and than backtrack on a planned summit he sees himself as a hospitality guy. And you can also believe everything he says what he said including that. But first heres bill cairns with a check on the forecast. Ive got to show you what happened last night. About 15 miles away from the stadium this tornadoes came down with a strong thunderstorm right over this city. This is in northern portions of of dallas up around university park. Theyre estimating it was an ef 3 tornado and that means possibly 10 to 160 miles per hour. At least four homes were destroyed, a home depot was destroyed. We have minor injuries, thankfully no serious injuries and no fatalities, but scary scene. That again was between 9 00 and 9 15. Thats what it looked like on radar and heres dallas right here. Also we had a fatality in arkansas from the wind damage as the storms went through. All these blue dots are areas that need cleanup today because of downed trees and other wind damage. Today were dealing with about 17 people at risk of severe storms. Houston to new orleans back up to the memphis area and were continuing to watch these storms even on tuesday for the north coast. Kind of an ugly day from minneapolis to wisconsin and chicago. And the severe storm threat tomorrow will be in carolinas from just about central portions of of South Carolina back down towards wilmington and we also will deal with some of that rain. And beginning to get some new pictures in here from the dallas area. This was the home depot that was destroyed by those winds that were potentially 150 miles per hour. When you see all this damage and knowing some of these businesses are still open, its amazing we didnt have anymore serious injuries or fatalities. Well have more updates on this throughout the day here on msnbc. Well be right back. Msnbc. Well be right back. And private clouds, and hybrid clouds things can get a bit cloudy for you. But now, theres the Dell Technologies cloud, powered by vmware. 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Following widespread bipartisan criticism and maybe republicans will learn something from this, President Trump announced on saturday that next years g7 summit will no longer be held at his doral resort in florida. Republicans had an impact. The announcement came in a series of tweets where the president wrote i thought i was doing something good for our country, no, people dont like use bedbugs. By using our Trump National doral wresort in miami so first of all were going to read through these. Hes advertising. Im not reading. Unless i mention bedbugs. It shows just how corrupt this man is as president of the United States. And the corruption, the stealing from american taxpayers, the using of his office to stuff his pockets with corrupt dollars, its all laid out. Listen to this advertisement in a president ial tweet, which this is an official white house statement according to the white house. It is big, grand, on hundreds of acres next to Miami International airport. Has tremendous ballroom and meeting rooms, and each delegation would have had its own 50 to 70 unit building and blah, blah, blah, goes on. And so he keeps going on talking about how great his own its good stuff, though. Its amazing stuff, mick, and its just a straight out advertisement, a straight out advertisement for a property that he owns. Liberals, moderates, conservatives, they all know its corrupt. And most of them other than marco rubio actually said, you know what, thats corrupt, you cant do it, and oh, and besides it violates the constitution of the United States. And yet he was going to do it anyway. Well, first of all, joe, in any prior administration, obama, bush, that tweet alone from what is his de facto official account for the presidency would have prompted an ethics investigation. That tweet alone, the advertisement. I dont understand how weve gotten to a place where the president thinks we think the only hotel that exists in this entire world and entire country to host these meetings are u. S. Hotels, but the u. S. Is great country. We have great hotels, big hotels. I do feel bad for marco rubio. He president comes back and cancels it, but of course it was a problem. And there is something to think about here. The fact he did this, this provocation in the middle of a gathering of an impeachment storm says something about the president s mentality and a situation that his entire staff is dealing with. When how do you handle a principle like this . If youre mulvaney just imagine trying to defend what is basically indefensible. And the way you do it basically if youre Richard Nixon and you put go what everyone does it but of course we dont. And coming occupy on morning joe President Trump says says hes tired about hearing about russia and all the endless investigations, so why is the doj tripling down on exactly that . Nbcs ken dilanian has new reporting next on morning joe. That is amazing. You wanna see something amazing . Go to hilton instead of a travel site and youll experience a whole new range of emotions like. The relaxing feeling of knowing youre getting the best price. Thesell work. The utter delight of free wifi. Oh man this is the best part. Isnt that you . Yeah. And the magic power of unlocking your room with your phone. I can read minds too. Really . Book at hilton. Com. If you find a lower rate, we match it and give you 25 off that stay. Expect better. Expect hilton. You may have gingivitis. When you brush, and the clock could be ticking towards bad breath, receding gums, and possibly. Tooth loss. Help turn back the clock on gingivitis with parodontax. Leave bleeding gums behind. Parodontax. Aveeno® with prebiotic striple oat complex balances skins microbiome. So skin looks like this and you feel like this. Aveeno® skin relief. Get skin healthy™ to the wait did frowe just winners. Prouders everyone uses their phone differently. Thats why Xfinity Mobile lets you design your own data. Now you can share it between lines. Mix with unlimited, and switch it up at anytime so you only pay for what you need. Its a different kind of Wireless Network designed to save you money. Save up to 400 a year on your wireless bill. Plus get 250 back when you buy an eligible phone. Call, click, or visit a store today. Ken dilanian, you have new reporting for nbc news in a piece entitled a. G. Bar expands mysterious review into origin of russia investigation. Tell us about it. We started looking closely at this because Mick Mulvaney in his now famous news kfrps where he was discussing quid pro quo he said one of it reasons they were withholding the aid is therapy trying to get ukraine to cooperate what he called an Ongoing Investigation into wrongdoing. And he couldnt remember the name of the guy doing it. Someone had to prompt him. Its john durham. Barr has appointed durham to conduct a review of the origins of the russia investigation. What weve been able to learn is the review has expanded. Durham has added staff, expanded the time line and even looking at conduct that happened after donald trump was inaugurated. Weve reported hes been asked to interview many of the cia analysts behind the Intelligence Community assessment russia attacked the election in 2016 in favor of donald trump. Ken, can i ask you something . This seems akin to barr conducting an investigation about Neil Armstrongs walk on the moon, that it wasnt on the moon. Instead it was on a back lot in burbank. For them to even depot dogo dow path, they are ignoring the conclusions of Donald Trumps fbi director, Donald Trumps cia director, Donald Trumps director of national intelligence, u. S. Military. You could go to tom bosser, the president s first National Security advisor. Every single intel leader in america, republicans and democrats alike have all come to the conclusion that it was in fact russia, not ukraine, who tried to interfere with american democracy. Yeah, and to be clear, joe, its not 100 certain that durham is investigating this wacky Conspiracy Theory the server is in ukraine. I would be shocked if he was. That would be a scandal, actually. He does want to talk to people in ukraine, though, and theres a question about why. In general people are very puzzled whats going on here. Because even though there are a lot of questions about barr most people in the Legal Community i talk to have a lot of regard for durham. He goes pack to the Whitey Bulger case in boston, he investigated the fbi. Hes got a sterling reputation. Nonetheless hes been going around the world interviewing people in countries and the only template i can find for what theyre doing is its the George Papadopoulos western conspiracy tour. Theres no secrecy here, George Papadopoulos saying he was setup pie these various figures in the u. K. And it was all a deep state plot. Theyre also interviewing according to the New York Times and their own reporting durham is interviewing fbi officials who were involved in the early stages of the investigation, hunting for signs of bis. But he hasnt interviewed any of the key officials. Although he says he wants to talk to former cia director john brennen, he hasnt interviewed comey, andrew mccabe, rod rosenstein. So its really not clear where hes going with this but a lot of people are very rattled. Those cia analysts i mentioned had to hire their own lawyers because no one is sure if this a criminal investigation or not. And if it is a criminal investigation, what is the allegation of wrongdoing . No one i talked to can answer that, guys. People are vouching for durham, but people were vouching for barr as well, a guy i personally believe will be remembered as perhaps the most attorney general in the history of the United States of america. So all these assurances mean nothing especially when hes going around and not only going around the world apparently chasing conspiracy theories, whether its off of the internet or whether its from papadopoulos mind, but hes also trying to get documents from the cia. Hes trying to get intel documents that the cia should not give up for a thousand different reasons. You have the president of the United States pressuring the attorney general whos now pressuring an investigator to go around and to do things that have never pin done before. And that is go in and ask the cia to reveal things they shouldnt reveal. Thats right. You know, people forget that donald trump empowered william barr with his extraordinary authority to demand any classified document he wants in connection with this. And youre absolutely right, theres a lot of unease at the cia and disquiet about the notion of federal prosecutors going over and rootingen their files. Not pause hay did anything wrong but these are sources, highly classified documents in our government and theyre questioning what is the need for john durham and his prosecutors to talk to them about that in the absence of any wrongdoing, and what is their expertise. Someone said to me john durham is going across the world talking to foreign services, how does he know hes not peag libed to . The cia does that for a living. A federal prosecutor really doesnt have that expertise. So a lot of questions here, guys. Ken dilanian, thank you very much. Coming up on morning joe a new documentary digs into the Trump Administrations zerotolerance policy on immigration. It comes amid new reporting that more children were separated from their families than originally thought. That conversation is next on morning joe. On morning joe. [ orchestral music playing ] mom youve got to get yourself a new car. I wish i could save faster. Youre making good choices. Youll get there. Were you going to tell me about this . I know i cant afford to go. I still have this car so you can afford to go. I am so proud of you. Thanks. Principal. We can help you plan for that. Start today at principal. Com. Welcome to fowler, indiana. Home to three of bps wind farms. Which, every day, generate enough electricity to power over 150,000 homes. And of course, fowler. At bp, we see possibilities everywhere. only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. They release medicine fast, for fast pain relief. Tylenol®. Goldi knows to never compromise. 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The Courthouse News Service reports health and Human Services commander Jonathan White told a federal judge on friday that he believes a final accounting would show at least 1,250 additional children who have been separated from their parents before an injunction stopped the practice. The disclosure is part of an ongoing Class Action Lawsuit brought pie the aclu that has resulted in the reunification of children, the additional separations are likely to be confirmed by this friday. That news comes as a new documentary investigates how donald trump turned the issue of immigration into a powerful weapon. Joining us now is michael kirk, the director, producer and writer of the new front line film entitled zerotolerance. Also joining the conversation is former republican congressman Carlos Carbello of florida. So michael, ill start with you and the documentary and what it reveals. Well, essentially its the origin story of how donald trump found himself using resentment over immigration as a political weapon. Its from our point of view and what we can tell its maybe the essential element of his presidency in terms of what hes where hes had his most impact. We follow the story of three completely outsized and on the edges people in washington who got to the president , got to the general got to the gop, cracked it all open and used immigration as the way to do it. And carlos carvalho, the aclu, theyve been able to make some headway in the reunification. Can this Class Action Lawsuit do anything to reveal more about what this administration is doing in terms of separations . And how much headway will they have on reuniting all the children with their families . That would certainly be wonderful if we could get more information as to how these decisions were made. And its truly a shame, mika, but during the last Congress Many of us urged this president , this administration to actually solve immigration reform. If any president could have done it and protthe Republican Base together on immigration it would have been this president. Yet they decided to allow Jeff Sessions to launch this shock and awe campaign against immigrants and this cruel policy of separating children at the border was the result. This is new information. When we as republicans and democrats stood up and said we will not tolerate this policy and the president went ahead and ended it about a week after it was announced, we did not know it had actually begun apparently a few weeks before. So this is valid information, and again one of the lowest points of an administration that has had quite a few of them. So michael kirk, weve got a clip from the front line documentary thats airing on pbs. Its called zero tolerance. Take a look. Oh, shut up silly woman said the reptile with a grin. You knew damn well i was a snake before you took me in. How donald trump came to use resentment over immigration as a political weapon is a central defining aspect of his presidency. At its heart, a plan by three unlikely outsiders to transform the republican party, make a trump president and introduce a harsh new approach to immigration. Zero taolerance. He repurposed to warn in his mind about the dangers of immigration and what the immigrants would do if let inside the United States. You mention the three camp figures in washington who propelled trump to be this antiimmigration character. Hes had falling outs with two of them. Stephen miller, though, works in the white house and is one of his most powerful aids. Tell us about this to reporters late at night to peag one of the most powerful people in washington. Steve miller may be one of the most fascinating characters inside this administration. He begins hiss career at Jeff Sessions elbow as a communications staffer. Immigration for him seems to be the heart and soul of where he plans to make his legacy in washington. Of all of the figures that have been around President Trump during the immigration battles, miller stays there. Why is that . We spend a lot of time watching him climb the ladder, get inside those washington knife fights that were happening at the white house, still survive it. And finally as the president realizes, a president who waivers a lot on things like zerotolerance, family separation, daca, its miller who holds him to the center. And he finally rises to the top. And why . Because an election is coming and donald trump knows that to feed his base immigration is the central issue. As a former republican congressman, can you explain something to me . Im baffled how with the child separation policy it seems like groundhog day. You hear congress men and women. Every day they say they hate the policy, they dont want it, the Trump Administration says theyre changing it, and then they say no, not really, they go back to it. And now this reporting there were over a thousand children that were separated from their parents, why can congress not do anything about this terrible policy that no one should like and god i was about to say god plesz, but i dont want to say god bless, but those people who do really need to examine their souls. One of the important things to recognize, by the way, is that miller says, every time the picture comes up, every time statistic like 1,200 or 1,500 children separated from their parents, every time the propublicaado is played miller says thats a win for the president. And what he means pie that the is his base, he likes to see that. Thats their calculation, and oi think its the calculation of a lot of republicans in congress as well as the evidence clearly demonstrates. I will say this is one of those issues where republicans from suburban districts, more centrist districts really struggle with because they defend and were seeing it now with this syria example. Republicans really resentful. Unfortunately not a lot of them speaking up saying this should end, this is unacceptable. The president immediately pulled back and what had become for a week or ten days a mass policy of child separation really did come to an end. But still, everything that weve heard is true. This is the issue that most effectively divides the country which is why i think is the issue that most immediately needs to get resolved so people like donald trump and others stop using it to split this country in a very dangerous way. In 2018 we saw the trump strategy on immigration and politics in full fledge, the thrust to militarize the border which were carried out, we saw in my colleagues book that he had pondered asking soldiers to shoot people in the legs. We saw the fear mongering, the propaganda what would happen once they got here, the caravan. It failed. It was a rat for your party. Why then do we a doubling down on this strategy now . Because thats the mentality of the Steve Bannons of the world, the steve millers and youre right this was a policy that was rejected during the 2018 midterms, however, it was a policy also effective during the 2016 campaign. And the irony is this president allows himself to be influenced by all of these individuals because he has expressed a willingness, for example, to help dreamers, to provide them a path to citizenship. In private conversations that i had with him at least he spoke in reasonable ways about immigration. But these tacticians, the bannon, the millers and others really do convince them that this is the way to win and ultimately thats what donald trump wants, to win at any cost. Former congressman carlos ca carbelo, thank you very much. And as we go to break, a story that caught my eye from vermont. Members of a Girls High School soccer team were hit with yellow cards for sending a very public message. After their team scored a goal, the players removed their jerseys to reveal shirts reading equal pay. The push for pay equity in sports especially soccer was fueled by the 2014 womens u. S. Hockey team and its star players, know your values very own the lamaro twins. Among the equal pay supporters for months senator pat leahy who gave the team a shot out, go girls, i love it. By the way, were starting something new on know your value. Com to start off every week. Every monday log onto know your value. Com for that extra motivation to start the week. This week were thinking a lot about grace. As we prepare to say goodbye to a great friend. We were shocked by the passing of elijah cummings, and hes been on my mind a lot. Especially because of how grace and empathy seemed to really be the driving forces behind this great man. I was so inspired by elijah, and it was his grace that always made his message so powerful. Its why joe and i asked him to marry us. So ive been thinking about how grace really enhances our ability to be effective communicators and how grace can add such value to your relationships at work and in life. So get your monday motivation only at knowyourvalue. Com. It is live now. Still ahead this morning, our next guest will be a treat for anyone that is a fan of veep, im obsessed with vooveep. St r with your reader, iphone or android and manage your diabetes. With the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose levels any time, without fingersticks. Ask your doctor to write a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. You can do it without fingersticks. Learn more at freestylelibre. Us only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. They release medicine fast, for fast pain relief. Tylenol®. When you look at the world, what do you see . Where others see chaos, we see patterns. Connections. Relationships. When you use location technology, you can see where things happen, before they happen. With esri location technology, you can see what others cant. What about you, do you have any skeletons . Yeah. Okay, here we go. Yeah, i got one. When i was a kid, a pbunch of od er kids dared me to kill a stray dog. And you did . You killed a dog . Okay, well right before andrew and i split up, i dont know if you remember but his car caught fire. I did it. I torch cars, you know, give me the nuclear codes. I love that show so much. The final episode of veep may be behind us, but the show will live on in our hearts and minds. Joining us now, the actor that played dan eagan, reid scott, he starreds in the new movie black and blue. I have to ask you, you were such a jerk, you were so gross, you were so wrong. Do people come up to you and say that . Yeah, i guess im flattered that we made a realistic show. I have to remind people it was not a documentary. And i was not really a sociopath who killed animals, but that experience is one that will stay with me the rest of my life. It was an incredible show and were so impressed by how many people really love it and people are still finding it and it is really kood that evecool that s meet someone that just started season one, or theyre halfway through season three. You just see something in all of those characters that just, it hits you in the instinctive gut about the grossest stuff in terms of politics. So tell us about black and blue. It is really fun, dark cop drama. And it has a message as well. Naomi harris is a Rookie Police officer. Im her partner who has kept secrets from her, and it is all about the gray area in a police officer. We deal with corruption, with abuses of power, and it backs a lot of messages into a tightly wound Action Thriller. So congrats. There was a minute where Julia Louisdreyfus asked for help from china, and talk about the parallels between the series and what ewe syoure seeing now. There are moments that would happen in the donald Trump Administration and would you say no, that is to unrealistic. Veep has had the ability to predict some of the uncertainties. There has been a bit pitched, and were like this is too much, will people even buy that this would happen, so the moment where she even colluded with china, it was like this is Science Fiction and eight months latter later it is happening. The last season we definitely were influenced by what were seeing in politics right noud and we tried to reflect that without regurgitating it. And how absurd the show already is, be a reflection of what were witnessing. Lets go back to your movie quickly. Your partner is a bit of a whistleblower and speaks out in the community and is then shunned. Talk about that a little bit and the pressures, how you depicted speaking out and that translated on the screen. I think it is an incredibly important thing to allow whistleblowers to maintain and be heard. I dont like the name whistleblower, i think it has a negative connotation. Theyre doing us a service. Theyre letting us know something that is going on. Our movie for an Action Thriller was really quite brilliant and was packed with messages, and theyre all in there, but you get to let the messages wash over you while youre being entertained by this cop chase thriller, but the topic of whistleblowers is something i have been paying a lot of attention to in the last ten years. All right, reid scott, thank you so much for being on the show, the new film black and blue out this theaters nationwide this friday on october 25th and you can catch reid in why women kill on cbs all access and in all of those episodes of veep. Most of my final thoughts are about the yankees losing. Question see if republicans start to pick up on other issues as we discussed. If they broke rang to the syria. And in doral hosting the g 7, what issues will they take the president on. Im thinking about the testimony and well see if state officials come forward. And im waiting to see if impeachment will get the president to tone it down, toe his line, and try to keep it a bis more disciplined the next year. But probably not. That does it for us. Hello, im stephanie ruhle. It is a brand new week of impeachment related testimonies and the challenges facing President Trump and his team on this monday morning. Theyre also trying to find a number of self inflicted political wounds including the decision to