Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20200810

Weekend he effectively did. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. It is monday, august 10th, along with joe and me, we have nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of kc d. C. On nbc, kasie hunt. Political analyst and former chairman of the Republican National committee Michael Steele is with us. White house reported for the associated press, Jonathan Lemire. And former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst steve ratner is with us. And joe, a lot happening over the weekend. And weve got major covid19 news as well. Yeah a lot happening over the weekend. Of course, a lot of chaos, of course, coming from the white house. Jonathan lemire, we have economists, we have people on the hill, we have business owners, we have ceos. We even have well, we have white house officials that are sort of scratching their heads and asking what exactly happened on friday. The president tried to look like he was in control by pushing unconstitutional president ial directives which seem to go in all of these Different Directions and if that wasnt enough, friday night we had yet another trump friday night massacre where the new head of the post office just again not trying to hide it at all. Apparently doing whatever he can to sow chaos inside the post office as he and donald trump appear to be working together to sow seeds of doubt on whether the post office is going to be able to carry out its functions as we move towards the most important election of our lifetime, certainly the most important election as it has to do with the post offices participation. Try to tell us all the things that were going on friday and this weekend. Joe, it was a remarkable weekend. I was traveling with the president as part of the press pool of reporters. He spent the weekend at his golf club in bed minister, new jersey. On friday we werent expecting to see him. He had no events scheduling and reporters got a lid saying there was no events. And then the you lid was lifted. Ill take a minute to paint a surreal seal. The president at the podium delivered the speech in front of an audience, members of his club, many of them drinks in hand, not wearing masks, taking up space in the room. And seemingly in violation of the state of new jerseys guidelines for covid19. If its a political event, which this was deemed you can have up to 100 or so people in the room, there was more if you count the crowd, press, and secreta service. And they werent 6 feet apart. The crowd booed the reporters and applauded him. It had the makings of a political rally at an official white house event. On friday night he said he thereund threatened the executive actions were coming and then saturday he signed them. The takeaway seems to be two things, one real doubts about whether theyre constitutional. Whether or not the president has the authority to take the powers of the purse from congress through taxes and spending. They expect legal challenges, democrats were critical yesterday on the sunday morning talk shows. I expect well see a lot on the legal front in the days ahead. Also theres a question of whether or not theres as much here as the president says. The Unemployment Benefits were 600 a week, now its 400. And the white house wants states to pick up 100 of that, so its reducing the federal contribution to 300 from 600. Last night the president said maybe the federal government will fund the full 400. The evictions moratorium its about exploring how to stop that, no real teeth behind it. Youre right, the other story was the postmaster general. The president , whos always been defending it, the postmaster loses money, needs reforms. But we know, joe, this has been part of an all out assault on the integrity of mailin balloting ahead of the election. This would seem to add to the chaos and delays. Mika, there are, of course, one of two choices if you support the president you can say the president is intentionally sabotaging the United States post office in the run up to the most important election of our lifetime when the post office is going to be playing its most Important Role. And the president has decided to put a man in place with no postal background for the first time in decades in that key position. So you say, yeah, donald trump is intentionally trying to sabotage the elections, or two, he is performing, which is the equivalent of at this point injecting somebodys body that has covid with bleach and disinfectants and trying to stick uv lights in there. And its just a complete absolute ignorance of a situation. Regardless, whether its incompetence or intentional undermining of our democracy, there arent really a lot of good ways to look at this. And it does appear to be one of the great challenges that are going to be facing this country in the next two to three months having a president and a postmaster general who at the worst time possible are putting measures into effect that will undermine democracy. Were going to get to the economic and political fact check of the president s moves in just a moment. But youre right, the fact is, its happening. But first where things stand with the virus, the u. S. Surpassing 5 million covid19 cases. The alarming tally, which really puts us number one in the world has doubled since late june. Right now the country holds about a quarter of the worlds cases. While topping the list for most reported coronavirus deaths globally. We top the lists for people who have died of coronavirus. So far five states account for more than 40 of infection nationwide. Hot spots continue to grapple with rising cases like florida which yesterday reported nearly 6,200 cases and set a new weekly record for covid19 hospitalizations. Over the weekend, california confirmed more than 10,000 deaths since the start of the crisis. And more than half a million covid19 cases in all. Texas also confirmed more than 500,000 cases as Governor Greg Abbott extended his disaster declaration due to the pandemic. Meanwhile, Governor Andrew Cuomo reported the lowest rate since the outbreak. Theyve done it there. President trump signed a set of executive orders over the weekend expanding coronavirus relief. After lawmakers failed to reach a deal with the white house. Among the directives include deferring payroll taxes through the end of the year for americans earning less than 100,000. They also defer student loan payments through 2020. Discourage evictions and extend enhanced Unemployment Benefits. The payments will be at a reduced rate of 400 a week instead of the previous 600 that democrats have been pushing to reinstate. The federal government will only cover 75 of the cost with the other 25 falling back on the states. Here was trumps justification for that decision. Why did you decide on 400 when previously families were receiving 600 . That will be a hardship to many, what do you say to that . This is the money they need, the money they want. And this gives them great incentive to go back to work. A guy who claims to be a billionaire many times over telling families faced with unemployment what they dont need. No, they dont need that money. This is exactly what they need. This is exactly what they want. It is, though, of course, most likely unconstitutional because you have the president , again once again infringing on article 1 powers. As far as spending and taxing. And steve ratner, its just a bizarre list he put out there. He has had this obsession for some time about payroll taxes and cutting payroll taxes when economists, republicans, democrats, just about everybody on the hill have said, this does not make sense. This does not work. Especially when you have so many people who are out of work and arent paying payroll taxes right now. But take us through this bizarre laundry list of proposals by the president , most of which will, im sure, be declared unconstitutional in time. Yeah, joe. It is a bizarre laundry list. I think the president is was in a bad place politically. Hed be outma nufred by the democrats who passed the 3. 4 trillion bill in may. And the republicans until a few weeks ago hadnt be able to agree on a counter offer so he had to show the American People he was doing something. So its a bizarre list, a lot of odds and ends. I think we can litigate the executive order but it isnt much more than if he declared National Ice Cream day or another minor matter. To put it in perspective, youre talking about a couple billion dollars that may get to americans and the bid ask on the hill was between a tril and 3. 4 trillion. If you want to focus on payroll taxes for a second. You can see whats going to happen there. Its not a reduction, he doesnt have the authority to do that. Its a payroll tax deferal until the end of the year and its not clear that employers would cooperate since they might have the liability. And hes taking the money, 34 billion from fema, from Disaster Relief at a time when everyone is expecting a busy Hurricane Season and weve already had a bad storm. So all in all its not much of anything. The last point id make about it is, its not economically progressive in a sense. Yes, it is capped at 104,000, but if you make 90,000 youll get nine times the benefit of someone who made 10,000 is getting. And you can trust that to what the democrats wanted and what we did in the spring where checks of 1,2 1,200 to all those below certain level. So to take that one provision it doesnt make a lot of sense. Unemployment insurance if i can talk about that. We talked about the 400, which is really 300. The states dont have the money. Thats the point of the exercise. Theres nothing from what the president said for states, for schools, for hospitals, for testing. And andrew cuomo already said new york doesnt have the 4 billion to come up with their share of it. Other states the legislature is out of session very hard to implement it. I think mika also mentioned the eviction order isnt really an eviction order its an instruction to departments to stu study ways to help renters who are behind and cant pay their rent. And my approach would be to point that out to the people and we can talk about litigation if people want but theres not much here to litigate, quite frankly. It was a huge, gigantic nothing burger when you look through the policies at the end. In fact, some of the policies he put forth are going to hurt people, hurt Small Business owners the most. Mika, again i go back to the payroll tax cuts, economists, republicans, democrats, everybody opposing this, this is an obsession like hydroxychloroquine with the president of the United States. Hes been told by republicans and conservatives on the hill time and time again thats not the answer. We dont want that. Dont do that. The president goes ahead, he moves forward with it and what does he do . He just puts a deferal in place, he wants it to defer through his election. And then after the election, they have to pay it all back. So hes not giving them a cut. A payroll tax cut anyway. Hes deferring it until after the election and then the tax man cometh and asks for all that money back from Small Business owners, from working class americans, from people who arent going to be able to pay a big lump of money at the end. It is sheer insanity by a president whos obviously very desperate for a lot of reasons. And the very people who could make a difference and say something, not really stepping up. There seem to be only a few republican lawmakers who expressed concern over President Trumps new executive order. Senator ben sasse of nebraska being one of the strongest. He issues a statement which in part reads, quote, the pen and phone theory of executive law making is unconstitutional slop. President obama did not have the power to unilaterally rewrite Immigration Law with daca and President Trump does not have the right to rewrite the payroll tax law. He went on to say, under the constitution that power belongs to the American People acting through maiembers of congress. The wall street journal writing, the good news is that President Trump on saturday escaped the trillion dollar terms of surrender demanded by House Speaker nancy pelosi, the bad news is he followed the barack obama method with executive orders, one of which stretches the law in a way that a future progressive president will surely cite as a precedent. This seams like an area where republicans could just talk about the law, joe. It seems to me, i remember quite a few, i think ted cruz went crazy when barack obama was signing executive orders. I know a lot of people were concerned about it and criticized Barack Obamas executive orders. But silence. Nothing but silence on capitol hill, other than we saw ben sasse and the wall street journal both who had criticized barack obama when he did it and are criticizing donald trump when he does it. But Michael Steele, lets step back for one second and look at this and realize what republicans are doing here. They are setting a precedent you know, theyre so short sided because theyre thinking that donald trump is going to be president forever. And theyre so short sided that they dont realize that they are going to have a generation in in the minority to think about all the mistakes they made while trump was president and all the precedence that they set for the line of democratic president s who are going to be elected after this fall. Because if you look at the demographic changes, you look at the Republican Party in disarray, i think there are going to be democrats elect to the white house for quite some time. And what have they done . They have so undermined their position as legislators by deferring time and time again to Donald Trumps own power grabs that as the wall street journal said, theyre giving future president , Kamala Harris all that she needs to do something on abortion, gun laws, to do something on whatever they think theyre the most afraid of, she can do a president ial directive and say, donald trump did it, ted cruz said nothing about it, im good. Yeah, this is the constitutional slop that ben sasse referred to. The one thing about constitutional slop it doesnt go down easily at all. And the republicans are going to rue this moment. They in some respects already have. Because the question becomes ultimately, joe, so what . Thats Donald Trumps bottom line. Im going to do this, what are you going to do about it . So whether youre talking about some type of legislative remedy or some type of legal remedy, you go do that. In the meantime ive set the pattern in motion, ive established what im going to do. Let me know when you catch up. So the idea that began going back about 20 years now of executive authority thats unchecked. Weve given the executive branch an enormous amount of power by allowing these things to happen and the question becomes for republicans, particularly after this administration and what weve seen the president do, what do you say when a democratic moves on, like you said, abortion, the environment, health care, and a host of other issues because they figure, well, i dont like what congress is putting forth. Im not going to sign off on their bill so im going to create an executive order thats going to raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires. Im going to go ahead and put in an executive order that is going to, you know, restrict, you know, companies and what theyre doing in the environment. So these are the these are the stones that are being laid now on a path that republicans, while they were crying i think rightly about what obama did wi with daca through executive orders. They are now silent. They better Pay Attention to what ben sasse is saying. This is the problem for Mitch Mcconnell, how do you get out of the constitutional slop. How do you reposition the senate going into the november election. On the back end of this is not a lot of good for you. Okay. So kasie hunt in defense of republicans who are not speaking out vocally, what do they have to lose . Whats the risk . What is it we can understand as to why they wouldnt speak out at this point . Well, mika, its the point that joe was making about a generation in the minority, and instead of taking that long view of this, theyre taking a pretty short view saying weve got this election coming up in three months. Theyre increasingly afraid theyre going to lose the majority in the senate and this generated a set of headlines that at least made it look like they were doing something and, you know, behind the scenes republicans are telling me, okay, democrats we dare you to sue over Unemployment Benefits because they dont think that would look very good. And nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumer both declined to say they would do that when they were questioned about it on the shows yesterday morning. But the reality here is that this isnt one of the situations where President Trump can go out there and write his own reality based on headlines. These are people in every state across the country in red states, blue states, swing districts, safe districts, whose quality of life has suddenly plummeted in the last couple of weeks. They are turning on the tv, they are following every turn of these negotiations because it is the question between whether they can put food on the table or not or make their car payment or not, or pay rent or not, you cant blow through that from a media narrative and republicans on the hill are well aware there are all these issues. They do not want to go out and attack the president , for the same reason they havent wanted to attack the president any other time or on any other issue. They know they still need to get a deal and that is the bet that nancy pelosi is making here. She knows how hard this is for so many people. She also can point to something that they did in may. She can say, we were going to fix this for you in may. Its the republicans who waited around all of this time and now here we are. And so, i see this continuing at least through this week. The president seemed to say democrats want to come back to the table but my reporting i talked to sources they said that schumer or pelosi has not talked to the president about this. I think we have Chuck Schumer coming up and i think we should ask him about it. Yeah, i think we most likely will. And mika, you look at the situation that the republicans are in, and again, i know donald trump thinks that voters are stupid. He acts that way. He lies to them every day in a way that would suggest that he believes that his supporters are stupid. But republicans and democrats on the ground understand theyre a lot closer to their voters. They understand that so many people need help. They need relief. And the president s scam press cop be fre conference on friday and this spade of executive orders, unconstitutional as they are, not only unconstitutional, theyre just ineffective and voters are going to find it out quickly and when they find it out, whos going to be hurt . Republican senators who are already fighting if the their lives and, of course, a president who continues to lose badly in swing states. And let me add to that dynamic as we get into the new swing state polling. The other aspect of this is that republicans arent stupid, are they . I mean, its one thing to assume voters are stupid, thats bad enough. But they cant be stupid. They must see whats happening here. They know the law. Many of them are not stupid. They see whats happening with the post office. I assume republicans love their country, theyre there to serve. To me its still vexing as to what exactly is going on even if its at the risk of their political jobs. Polling shows Vice President joe biden is pulling ahead of President Trump in states trump won in 2016. In the new cbs news yougov poll. Out of pennsylvania, joe biden leads President Trump 49, 43. In wisconsin biden at 48 compared to donald trump 42. And a statewide poll from michigan found trump trailing biden by 11 points, 40 to 51. And joe, again, i raise the issue of what is happening with the post office. When President Trump looks at the numbers, its a worthy question, is it not, that yeah. There is sabotage involved here. The president is desperate and we know hed do anything to get reelected. So the question is for people as theyre looking at the president of the United States deciding the radically restructure the United States post office just months before the most important election of our lifetime and the election that the United States post office will play the most Important Role. Deluged with a million ball llo b ballots. In the middle of a pandemic. Yes. Im curious if theres a republican senator brave enough to take up the cause and say its not going to be allowed. But you look at the polls, Jonathan Lemire, and they line up fairly consistently what youve been hearing what weve been seeing, and that is michigan, apparently out of reach right now for the president. And wisconsin and pennsylvania both still solid solidly in the biden camp. You look throughout the state of pennsylvania, with the suburbs of philly, philadelphia proper, look at scranton wilkesbarre. A big media market that usually breaks big for republicans. Thats now biden is doing well there, of course, because its his hometown. The president is facing real difficulty as we get halfway through august. Thats right, joe. And the president has received new briefings from the Campaign Staff about where things stand. First, a little more politics this weekend, of course. This is the white house with the executive orders and theyre dubious constitutionality. This is them trying to frame the president stepping in the breech, this is the president is a man of action trying to get it done. But there seems to be lesser than expected. One other thing to flag, payroll taxes help Fund Social Security so this is the president trying to cut into that. The president denied that yesterday saying Social Security wouldnt be touched it would come from an unspecified general fund. Thats something we need specifics on. Back to the swing states the president and his team their new internal polling, he was briefed on this over the weekend suggests what you said, joe, that michigan is basically out of reach. The Trump Campaign has stopped advertising there, they are not playing there. Theyve all but ceded michigan. Another state you and i talked about in the early parts of the campaign they thought had the chance to flip, a state they lost in many 2016 but feel they can turn thing around in had this time, minnesota, now theyre conceding it out of reach and theyre not going to play there. They feel the gap has narrowed in some of the battleground states, New Hampshire one, wisconsin another state that wont have College Students on campus this fall who wont be able to register to vote there, same day voting in if madison, wisconsin not going to happen because students likely wont be on campus. But pennsylvania is trying to make a push here. Joe biden has been ahead, as you said, the white house team, the Campaign Team thinks its within reach. They feel theyve whittled off a little of his margin. And then theres the fire of who Vice President joe bidens pick will be that will be a focus the next few days and for the white house a relief. This whole Campaign Every Day of the campaign has been about donald trump for at least a few days they feel that scrutiny on biden and his pick the story will be about joe biden and his pick. I dont see them making a play for it in New Hampshire. Wisconsin could be competitive till the end. But again, you look at the breakdown in pennsylvania, i just dont see how they make up enough votes to make put pennsylvania in their column by the end. So this map continues to shrink by the day for the Trump Campaign. Which i think explains the other side of the story. Well continue to cover the post office issue. Still ahead on morning joe, as jonathan just mentioned former Vice President joe biden is set to be closing in on his pick for a running mate. Stakes are high and could potentially make history. Plus Chuck Schumer will be our guest on the heels of the president s new executive orders. Youre watching morning joe well be right back. Ure watchi well be right back. The open road is open again. And wherever youre headed, Choice Hotels is there. Book direct at choicehotels. Com. They get that no two people are alike and customize your car at choicehotels. Com. Insurance so you only pay for what you need. What do you think . I dont see it. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. 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I think youll see by june a lot of the country should be back to normal. The hope is by july the country is really rocking again. I think they provide significant economic assistance even though the numbers are coming in strong, a good jobs number on friday, declining unemployment. We created 9 million jobs in three months, thats a record but theres still a lot of hardship out there, a lot of hard braeak and the point that President Trump made is that on several occasions we tried to get a compromised deal on the unemployment assistance which ran out, the federal unemployment assistance, thats a key point. Jared kushner back in april and larry kudlow yesterday. And steve ratner, what are they talking about . You have charts. What theyre talking about is their spin on the economy. This is the ying and yang of politics. The republicans want us to think the economy is recovering rapidly and the facts are not quite the same. Lets go back to fridays jobs number and look at how that fits into the resent historic perspective. You can see the dramatic drop in jobs in march and especially april, recovery in may, a reasonably strong june and then this threemonth job record that larry kudlow is touting includes 1. 8 million from last month but see the deceleration from 4. 8 million in june to 1. 8 million in july. I think all of us think its a direct consequence of states opening and having to close again as the virus spread. Ill show you other things about the slow down in economic activity. We lost 22. 2 million jobs since this started weve only regained 9. 3 million. At the rate were going, its months, perhaps longer, before the economy fully recovers. If we can look at the Unemployment Rate which was also reported on friday, and there was a decline to 10. 2 , and so again you can see unemployment coming down steadily through the recovery, you can see the jump up in the spring, you can see where its come down to, but if you look at what economists are currently forecasting theyre looking for just under 10 right around election day, there are two more jobs reports before election day, and that will bring us back to where we were in december of 2010. The president will be claiming unemployment is coming down, things are Getting Better. The reality of where well be at that point in time is a place no president wants to be when hes fighting for reelection. These numbers confirm other data were seeing about general slow down in the return to normal here as the states have to close and reopen and so forth as they fight the virus. So this last chart is one from the chase bank, which tracks Consumer Spending on their credit card and again you can see the same kind of pattern, sharp drop off during the spring as we went into shutdown, lockdown mode, can you see a steady recovery but when you get to the middle of june, that recovery stalls out and we are sitting at roughly 10 less Consumer Spending every month than we had a year ago. And not really Getting Better at the moment. And lastly i would say there are indications out there that i dont want to predict jobless numbers that are so hard to predict right now, but when you put it together with data about layoffs, it does scare me and worry me about an august a possible august pretty bad jobs number and other Economic Data were not going to like. So all of this simply confirms we needed another package. You had Unemployment Insurance expiring. You had the payroll protection has expired now and this is why Congress Needed to act. And this is why the president is trying to look like hes acting, even though theres very little thats going to help this problem in his package. We certainly need another package passed whatever that looks like, whatever compromise democrats and republicans can come up with. Youre right, steve, a lot of economists worried that august, september, october, may limp along. Michael steele, looking at the numbers as they are and if we end up above 10 at the time of Donald Trumps reelection attempt in november, youre going to have two messages. Youll have larry kudlow bragging about how great the economy is doing. We picked up x number of jobs in the past five months its a record. Then you have democrats talking about unemployment over 10 , unprecedented hardship across america, it didnt have to be this way. How do you sort through that . How do you think that breaks down for voters in the six or seven states that matter the most . Joe, its going to be critical. Theres no doubt about how this narrative is received by voters as they turn into september, as you know whats the whats the more compelling narrative that you would like to have when you ran a national party, which of those two narratives would you rather have going into the fall, all things being equal . You want a narrative you can talk about positivity in the economy, job growth and creation, you can talk about stabilized, you know, Financial Sector where businesses are investing and Small Businesses in particular are taking advantage of those opportunities because they are the engine that creates jobs. But this is the reality. Its not like youre creating jobs. People are going back to jobs they had. Theyre being rehired. The administration is walking as 23 these are new jobs as if this is somehow freshly minted employment. These are folks getting back to where they were. And then you layer on top of that, the still uncertainly about what the fall looks like in a world of covid19. We dont know that. These rosie scenarios are not taking into consideration what the doctors and scientists and researchers are telling us lies ahead. So voters are putting this in perspective. So despite the rosie packages put out by the administration, as steve laid out, the numbers for candidates on the ground to go into town hall meetings, virtual or otherwise are going to tell a different tale. Thats why what you see happening coming out of the senate is so important to hold that majority, because you just cant go out and sell this idea that we cut the payroll tax, no, you didnt, you deferred it. So as an employer i have to pay that on the back end. So the mixed messaging is a problem for the administration. Youre right. Im going through it in my head listening, im trying to figure out what message i want to deliver in a town hall before an election. You can say things are Getting Better but if you sound like larry kudlow and talk about how great the economy is and its record breaking youre going to make people inside that town hall upset. Theyll say youre a creature of washington what do you know about the pain my family and i have been through in the past six months. So there is danger in taking that positive tact. Of course, democrats want to focus on how i think the strong message is, mika, that this is the worst economy collapse since the great depression. And it didnt have to be this way. It didnt have to be this bad. If the president had moved in late january, like joe biden had told him to move in late january, if he had used the Defense Authorization act and started the defense production act and started an aggressive testing regiment, started an aggressive regiment as it pertained to all of the other things that we needed to do, if we, in fact, had a president who acted like a wartime president because, make no maistake, our children are going to look back on this time like it was a war, because their lives have changed in radical ways. In ways that no generations lives have been impacted where they go inside and basically duck and cover for six months. And the deaths now up to 160,000. Guess what were approaching three vet vietnams. More people have died in this war than american soldiers died in world war i. So this is serious. This is extraordinarily serious. And americans feel it. And as we move towards this election, its going to be very difficult for republicans to come up with a message, especially with this president acting the way he is. But to come up with the message that is going to sell inside that room, thats going to sell on tv, thats going to sell on radio. They have a couple of months to figure it out. But as weve been saying for some time, early voting begins in a few weeks. All right. Steve ratner thank you very much. Coming up intelligence officials gathered last year to write a classified report on russias interest in the 2020 election. Now a new investigation from the New York Times is uncovering what those officials found and that is next on morning joe. Od that is next on morning joe. Ng for this for a long time. They will, but with accident forgiveness allstate wont raise your rates just because of an accident, even if its your fault. Cut sonny. Was that good . Line the desert never lies. Isnt that what i said . No you were talking about allstate and insurance. I just. When i. Lets try again. Everybody back to one. Accident forgiveness from allstate. Click or call for a quote today. You cant claim that because its inanimate people ask me what sort of a person should become a celebrity accountant. And, i tell them, nobody should. Hey, buddy. Whats the damage . I bought it the waterfall . Nope a new volkswagen. A volkswagen . I think were having a breakthrough here welcome to caesars palace. Thank you. When President Trump spoke to Vladimir Putin july 23rd, did he tell him to knock this off . The president has told the russians, weve told the russians, ourcount counterparts to get involved in our election. Did President Trump tell that to president putin . What i didnt get involved in, unlike my predecessors, i dont get involved in conversations that the president has with foreign heads of states. Whether its france or russia. What do you do then . What do you do . You dont talk to him . You talk to him about whiffle ball . Do you talk to him about goonies too . Do you what do you talk to him about if you dont talk to him about discussions with foreign was goonies 2 a movie . That was the National Security advisor. The United States National Security advisor Robert Obrien being pressed yesterday on whether President Trump confronted president putin about elections. We have an update quickly. Alex, can you give us insight there . What was it again . Goonies 2, never say die. He said it went straight to netflix. Your father and brent, we never talk about him yes. Passed we this weekend. Your father had such Great Respect for him and im sure he would agree with Richard Haass he was one of the greatest National Security adviser who sat in the oval office, other than the one who worked for jimmy carter. I dont know. But those guys, National Security advisers were constantly talking to their president , constantly finding out about those conversations, and then figuring out how to craft it in the policy. How to craft it into initiatives. That is the problem, again, just an extraordinary breakdown of all interagency workings with this administration. You have a president that nobody talks to and a president that talks to nobody. And thats what makes this situation, and the situation weve had from the beginning with russia so dangerous where the president of the United States is talking on the side to foreign minister of russia saying, i just fired the fbi director so this whole russia thing i got a lot of pressure off of me, or constantly talking to Vladimir Putin alone. And this is what Robert Draper actually has dug into in this incredible New York Times piece. And big picture, read ann applebalms book, Madeleine Albrights book on why this is so important. But that current piece of sound from the National Security advisor follows a new Intelligence Report that shows russia is working to denigrate joe biden to boost President Trumps chances for a second term. Thats according to the top official at the National Counterintelligence and Security Center who on friday released a report about foreign interference in the upcoming election. The report also found that china has been, quote, expanding its influence efforts ahead of november and would prefer that trump does not win. But officials said chinese leaders have not yet decided to weigh directly into the president ial contest. Officials briefed said they believed russia to be the far graver, more immediate threat. Joining us now, former chief of staff of the cia and nbc news National Security analyst robert bash. And author, Robert Draper. Hes the author of the new book to start a war how the Bush Administration took america into iraq. And he has the cover story for the latest issue of the New York Times magazine entiled unwanted truths, i inside trumps battles with u. S. Intelligence agencies. Robert draper, great to have you here. Of course, one of the parts of your story that sticks out the most is the fact that there was a conclusion, a report and a conclusion that let me get the exact wording right here. That russia clearly favored the current president , but after dan coats left, it was changed and the language was watered down. Donald trump exerting tremendous influence over the intel agencies and believing that they are supposed to do his bidding and not the bidding of the United States of america. As you mentioned, joe, this is a National Intelligence agency that came to the conclusion that russia likely favored the current president in this november election, which should not seem startling, putin himself said he favored the president in 2016. But knowing that at any time the subject were brought up to President Trump he would become unglued essentially because it called into question the legitimacy of his presidency, people always walk on eggshells. So when this particular National Intelligence estimate was coming down the pike for fear of incurring the president s wrath, it was watered down as you indicate to say russia probably judges under a Different Administration the u. S. Relations might suffer. It seems like a small distinction but its critical because it allowed republican lawmakers when a National Security official testified on the hill about russia favoring trump to say, no, theres nothing in the intelligence that says that whatsoever. Youre right about the damage that many believe donald trump has caused the intelligence communities and some believing its going to be hard for the intelligence communities to recover, even if hes defeated this fall. Explain that. For one thing, i think that we have seen agency after agency under President Trump excerpt his own influence and bend them to his will, department of justice, Homeland Security, health and human services. Its particularly important when the entity that the entity that exists to bring the president the truth, the uncomfortable truth even is bent to his will, it comes back to what you were talking about in the earlier segments, the happy talk related to the economy, the coronavirus, and its not that the the cia is to give you the hard truth. Its creating a demoralizing situation in the Intelligence Community, but also turnover in officials and a loss of credibility with our counter parts. Roberts book is extraordinary. Ann applebalms book where she talks about the alternative realities that robert just talked about. This is directly from the autocrats play book. Whether youre looking at hungary, at poland, whether youre looking at whats happening across the world in turkey, in the philippines. The first thing you do is you devalue the truth. You lie so often that youre able to create an alternative reality and then you feed that alternative reality to your numb supporters and fairly soon they live in that alternative reality with you. And so, anything that tries to break through that cultlike following suddenly becomes fake news. Suddenly becomes propaganda. Suddenly becomes a plague from george soros, suddenly becomes something that academia is doing to undermine the great donald trump. Thats how hes conditioned his people. Weve seen it in autocratic regimes likehungary, turkey, across the world, and, of course, Vladimir Putin in russia. Lets look at donald trump responding this weekend to a question about his Intel Community. Mr. President , your Intelligence Agency today said that russia is already meddling in this years election to hurt joe biden and that china is considering meddling to hurt you. Do you believe that intelligence . What do you plan to do about it . It could be. I could be very much. I think the last person russia wants to see in office is donald trump because nobody has been tougher on russia than i have ever. Thats not what the Intel Community says i dont care what anybody says. Jonathan lemire, as you know very well because you were there, as the Action Center would say, ke creation. You were in helsinki, when you asked Vladimir Putin and Vladimir Putin said, you know what, im for donald trump, i wanted donald trump to win. So again, more alternative facts. Donald trump lying through his teeth. He was there perhaps he doesnt remember helsinki if the president s supporters want to say hes got a bad memory and lost five or seven steps okay they can go with that excuse or go with hes a bald faced liar because he was with you in helsinki two years ago when he heard Vladimir Putin saying, yes, i wanted donald trump to win. Thats right. In helsinki, joe, the president , of course, sided with russia over his own u. S. Intelligence conclusions about the 2016 election interference and indeed, even though putin, of course, denied beings involved with the interference, he flatout admitted he had been favoring donald trump to win that election. And the president i want to go to jeremy bash. I was there when he answered the question over the weekend, he grew testy as the second part of the answer because he was saying, here, china is trying to bring me down. The intelligence conclusion officers suggest that iran would prefer the president to lose. But walk us through the differences here. It seems to me that this report suggests while china and iran may have preferences that the president lose, theyre not actively trying to undermine him like russia is trying to do with joe biden. What was your take . Can you walk us through it . Thats right, jonathan. And china and iran, the fact they oppose american policy decisions thats par for the course. Theyre adversaries. But whats disturbing, abnormal, dangerous is that russia is trying to support donald trump in the election. And the key difference between 2016 and 2020 in 2016 when the russians supported trump he was a candidate, he had no thought to reward the russian federation. Now hes commander and chief, he can invite them to the g7, slow roll sanctions, he can refuse to push back on them when they pay bounties to the taliban to kill american troops and under mine nato. He can do all five of those things as commander in chief. Thats a quid pro quo, a reward for the support the Russia Federation is giving him during this election cycle. Robert draper, its kasie hunt. Im thinking back to when we first went through this in 2016. We learned after the fact that the Obama Administration and members of congress, the people in the gang of eight, were watching what was happening and trying to figure out what to say in public about it. Now obviously we saw this memo go out late last week, which is more than anything we ever saw in 2016, but im wondering what reporting you have, about whether there are disagreements and pressures going on behind the scenes between republicans and democrats on what to say in public this time around . Well, i guess lets divide between the senate and the house. I mean, on the senate side, kasie, republicans are largely in lock step with the democrats, with the pointed exception of senator ron johnson who has been basically spreading disinformation regarding the bidens, presumably in an effort to hurt bidens campaign. On the house side its contention though. Its hard to see where House Republicans have embraced their responsibility to provide oversight. If anything they have been as my story details, its devin nunes immediately went after closed session classified hearing to the white house and described the contents of that, which by the way is the kind of thing that never would have happened under previous administrations. There shouldnt be any lawmaker, democrat or republican, reporting findings of a top secret briefing directly to the administration. Shows you a true and unfortunate erosion of oversights occurred with this administration. Jeremy bash, thank you very much. And Robert Draper, thank you as well. Well be reading your cover story in the new issue of the New York Times magazine. It is just past the top of the hour on this monday august 10th, kasie hunt, Jonathan Lemire and Michael Steele still with us. And joining the conversation is Michael Barnacle and errin haines. And we start with President Trumps unscheduled News Conference on friday night that appeared to be a shot for members of his bed minister golf club. Many members walked into the room not wearing face coverings, this is a Problem Health wise. Masks were handed out before the president arrived. New jerseys social distancing guidelines were also completely ignored after reporters raised concerns, the Washington Post said a Club Official told the crowd to, quote, spread out a little because tweets are going out. Really . What about your life . When asked about the lack of safety precautions, the president played to his audience. The pandemic is disappearing, we lost 6,000 americans this week and in this room you have dozens of people not following the guidelines of new jersey which say its political youre wrong because its a political activity. They have exceptions political activity. And its also a peaceful protest. So as you know [ cheers and applause ] , you know, the number of to me they look like they all have pretty much all have masks on. You have an exclusion in the law that says peaceful protests or political activity yeah, it says political activity or peaceful protests. You can call it political activity but i call it peaceful protests. They heard you were coming up and they know the news is fake. They understand it better than anybody. They asked whether or not they could be here. And again, constantly attacking mika the news. Again, thats what autocrats do. Thats what dictatordictators, throughout history, have done. Were not saying obviously that donald trump is a dictator he cant be because madison had checks and balances that ensure that he candidate do the kind of things that hes trying to do and that he can be checked by courts and the press. But again, he goes to his country club, a group of people are around, and then theyre told to put on masks, not because over 150,000 americans have died, not because their own safety is at risk, but theyre told that tweets are going out showing them not doing what every doctor, and what every medical provider is telling them to do. Its a cult. Its just a cult. Its a cult that ignores medicine. Its a cult that ignores science. Its a cult that ignores what epidemiologists who have been studying pandemics their entire life are saying. Its a cult that ignores scientists and they think theyre proving something by getting sick and getting their parents sick and killing other people around them. No, theyre not proving anything, other than theyre putting the their own cultlike beliefs ahead of their own safety and the safety of others around them. Its bizarre. Again, its one thing when you were in that cult and believing the lies about Robert Mueller and you were in that cult and baliing t believing the lies about russia, the lies that the president said about ukraine, thats one thing. But now youre going all in, all over america people refusing to wear masks, people suggesting that this is a conspiracy led by dr. Anthony fauci and george soros. Come on, its really its gotten to such extremes that Senior Citizens in florida are dying. Senior citizens in arizona are dying. Senior citizens across america are dying. And guess what, a lot of kids are getting infected too. Thats right. Guess what, that picture of that georgia hallway, whos surprised . Now were finding out kids in that hallway have been infected with the coronavirus. And yet members of Donald Trumps cult, instead of focussing on the pandemic and protecting themselves, protecting their loved ones, protecting the economy, protecting ma protecting america, instead theyre cheering when donald trump bashes members of the press. Yes, this will be written for generations to come. And yes, donald trump, and especially republicans in the senate, will be the ones found guilty of negligent behavior that killed a lot of americans. So i agree with everything that you said about the consequences of people dying because theyre not following the guidelines and this president is setting the worst example ever and has botched this pandemic it almost looks purposeful its so bad. So bad. But at the very top you said that this is what dictators do and it wont be allowed because of madisons checks and balances. Tell me what hasnt been allowed in this presidency . He may have been criticized by the military, by the Intelligence Community, but what exactly hasnt been allowed so far as we head into an election where it appears the Postal Service is being sabotaged. I just want to understand where the checks and balances are that are actually stopping corrupt, unlawful behavior . Well, you can go all the way back to the first week of the presidency. You can look at the courts that struck down his first two socalled muslim bans. And wouldnt allow those so called muslim bans to go into effect until they were drafted in a way that was constitutional that didnt violate peoples constitutional rights. You can go through three and a half years of judicial rulings that time and again have held the president of the United States in many check. All the way to the decision this past month from the Supreme Court that said the state of new york could have access to Donald Trumps tax records for the purposes of a pending investigation, a possible criminal investigation. You can look not just at the judiciary, you can look at the military and their response to june the 1st, after making an egregious error, the chairman of the joint chiefs the next day came out, made a very rebuked him. Strong, definitive statement and rebuked the president of the United States and then went on video link and apologized to every member of the armed services. Every man and woman, every fellow general, admiral, every private. Yes, there have been checks and there have been balances in real time. The house of representatives impeached the president of the United States. And impeached the president of the United States because he used his office of the presidency to leverage foreign aid to a country who had been invaded by russia to try to get dirt on his political opponent. And has that stopped him . Those facts those facts, those facts are very clear. And guess what, just like the Republican House of representatives face the music in 2018 and lost by the greatest landslide margin in the history of this this republican, in terms of voting, those senators that voted earlier this year to allow a commander in chief to use his position to leverage a foreign leader who is under attack by a foreign country, the russians, to get dirt on Donald Trumps domestic opponent, every one of those senators will have to face voters this year. And Mike Barnicle, ive got to say. If if you look at what has happened to the Republican Party on the local level, on the state level, on the national level, since the day that trump has gotten elected, you see from virginia to kentucky to louisiana, across the fruited plains in house races, in senate races, and now in a spade of polls that are coming out, that madis madisons systems of checks and balances has worked pretty damn well up to this point. Yes, we have a real challenge with the post office. Donald trump appears and i say appears to be trying to throw the United States Postal Service in a state of chaos. And hes probably succeeding at doing that. Its now time for courts. It is now time for the United States congress. It is now time for others to stand up and hold this president accountable. Theyve done it before. Well see if they have time to do it now. Joe, you know, through the clouds and the obstruction of the last three and a half years youre right. The one glimmer of hope is that the system of checks and balances has worked in the past, the courts have done their job in the past. But, you know, just listening to the program for the last hour and ten minutes or so, i mean, what were dealing with you can almost hear the nuts and bolts of our democratic form of government just popping, breaking and the system breaking down through malicious intent, the president s press conference or faux press conference saturday night in new jersey where President Trump gets the crowd going and calls it fake news. You know its fake news. We know whats not fake, the virus is not fake. Millions of people unemployed this week, thats not fake. Millions of people facing eviction, thats not fake. The Republican Party, joe, were going to have an election in november 2020, the election of november 2020, but its more than about 2020. If you look at the demographics of this country and if you look at the stain i mean the stain that donald trump has put on the Republican Party in those who just mindlessly have followed his every word and movement, this is also about 2024 and 2022 for the Republican Party. People forget a lot of things we are a country of am neez yaks with 8, 9, 10 news drops a day, people tend to tune out. But people dont forget things like not getting a paycheck, not having someone come for them, to help them. Govern government is there to help people in trouble. This time people are in real trouble and nobody is coming, nobody is coming largely because of the Republican Party led by donald j. Trump. Kasie, let me ask you, what is being done on capitol hill . What can be done on capitol hill to counter Donald Trumps friday night massacre at the United States post office . Again, just an absolutely bold attempt to sow chaos inside a bureaucracy thats going to be determining how votes are counted and how quickly we get the results and how much chaos is, in fact, experienced in the counting of those votes to see who the next president of the United States is. I can tell you, joe, democrats have been focused on this p. They dragged the new postmaster general into the capitol last week and had a heated meeting with nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumer. Democrats were willing to take down their budget request in the coronavirus legislation, they were going to compromise and drop some of the funding but what they wanted in exchange was demand policy changes to address what youre talking about. My own family sent a standard business letter in the mail, two weeks to go from the east coast to the state of michigan. You can see some of the effects playing out across the system. I think a lot of americans can speak to whats going on already. So i do think there is urgency on the part of democrats. Its been one of their lines in the sand in terms of the relief packa package. But if we get no relief package im not sure theres a vessel to address it here. This is what i dont understand. You covered and known donald trump for a long time. He always seems to be acutely aware of his own selfinterest and has been willing to act in his own selfinterest. What nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumer have been saying to him all the way along is, sure, well spend 3 trillion to try to help americans and help the economy. The president s been saying all along if the economy is good, ill win the election. Theyre in many ways offering him a political gift. Now, of course, they are looking at the realities americans are facing and saying this is why we need to act. But why the president seems to be listening to mark meadows on this and not looking at the broader picture is a mystery to me. Im wondering if that log jam breaks this week or we head into the fall with no relief in sight on the Postal Service or any of these issues, joe. Its a mystery because as i have been saying since 2015, donald trump is not a conservative. Hes to the really what we usually define as being a republican. Hes a big spending democrat. And so, yes, it is odd. This is another one of those times where another one of those 80 20 issues where donald trump is choosing the 20 . Choosing to do nothing. Choosing to put out a spade of meaningless and at the same time this is quite an accomplishment to put out a spade of meaningless executive orders that are both meaningless and unconstitutional, that is your daily double for donald j. Trump. But it is interesting that this man whos been willing to throw money at every problem over the past three and a half years who before the coronavirus breakout was the biggest spending not only republican but biggest spending president in the history of this republic. Spent more on government than any president ever. Ever. It is curious that with his polls dipping, hes just not doing anything. Its also very curious for Mitch Mcconnell whos in a battle of his own. He upnderstands hes in a heate battle. He understands that Martha Mcsally is way behind, Corey Gardner is way behind. Susan collins in maine is fighting for her life. He understands that thom tillis is fighting for his life. He understands there could be a big flip to the Democratic Party and democrats could take control of the senate for a very long time. Its curious theyre dragging their feet because a lot of their supporters, contributors are saying dont give 600 in Unemployment Benefits, thats too much money people wont want to go to work if you give them 600. But thats where we are. Lets look at a couple polls that came out over the weekend. One that came out on friday that is going to be telling, joe biden sitting at 49 and donald trump at 43 in in the state of pennsylvania. That is a six point lead for joe biden, among registered voters. Lets go to wisconsin. You have a six point lead among registered voters there, 48 to 42 . Ill be honest with you, i dont know why anybody is doing polls with registered voters right now, instead of likely voters. Likely voters tighter look at the electorate. Heres a likely voter poll out of michigan. Joe biden at 51 , donald trump at 40 . And errin, here we have in every swing state weve seen one poll after another over the past several months where joe biden remains comfortably ahead. Yeah, and you took the words out of my mouth, joe. Likely voters is who we need to Pay Attention to in these polls in battleground states. This is important especially as we consider what Many Americans consider, which is the conversation around how people are going to be able to safely participate in this democracy headed into november. Were seeing, you know, that voters are enthusiastic but Younger Voters polling has shown, even though theyre paying attention to this election are not sure how theyre supposed to be able to do that. You have africanamericans, many of whom as we know are being affected by this pandemic who are thinking about voting from a Public Health perspective, not wanting to stand in long lines which happens in black communities across the country and exposing themselves to coronavirus possibly versus trying to get a mailin ballot that may or may not be happening and then trying to mail that in and that vote may or may not be counted given the current dynamics with the Postal Service. I think that likely voters peopling wanting to cast ballots what we should be paying attention to in this moment because those folks want to participate in the election and not sure how theyre going to be able to do that safely. Jonathan lemire lets put those polls back up again and have you go through what the president and his team are talking about in their strategy moving forward with several months to go. And also, if you will, tell us again, when does early voting start and well start with this again, pennsylvania poll with biden up six points. Wisconsin biden up six points. Michigan biden up by 11. Jonathan, give us the breakdown. The first state is North Carolina, which is i believe september 3rd. That kicks off the early voting. North carolina key battleground and other states begin on the days and weeks to follow. September 3rd, two months before election day. So a lot of votes are going to be banked so the president , trailing and his campaign acknowledges that, are running out of time to change those voters minds. But its true, those who vote early tend of their minds made up. We were talking before about the polls, both campaigns agree that there are six battleground states to decide this election, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, arizona, North Carolina, florida. Thats setting aside somewhere now the president has to play defense and has had to spend resources and had to go the past week to places like ohio, texas, georgia is another one he has to play defense. We dont see, outside of perhaps New Hampshire, a place where democrats have to do the same now that the Trump Campaign has ceded michigan is a place that is fulfilled. So they can afford to lose one more of the other side. They can lose wisconsin, pennsylvania, but they have to win the rest of them, if they lose two the ball game is over, they cant get 270 electoral votes. They are concerned about where they stand in some of the states. Arizona in particular has been a place of worry for the president s team of late. Thats a state hit hard by the coronavirus pandemic. Its not a coincidence that the president had the governor of arizona here at the white house for an event last week where he talked about things Getting Better, played up how the federal government has stepped up for arizona that was with an eye towards november. They cant i win at all, theres no path to victory without florida theyre trailing there but feel reasonably confident about florida and North Carolina too. But its the states, pennsylvania and wisconsin where they know theyre down and need to reverse fortunes as quickly as they can. Michael steele, if youre joe biden this week and youre looking at putting out a Vice President ial pick you look at the polls and see youre ahead in all of the polls, whats your play, do you go safe with your Vice President ial pick and whats your strategy going into the fall . Thats a good question. I dont think joe biden is necessarily beholden to the conventional thinking around the Vice President ial pick this time. He made it clear hes going to pick a woman. I think he wanted someone to work with him as he worked with barack obama. Thats something a lot of voters appreciate. They watched joe support president obama over those eight years. And sometimes, in some instances lead, like he did, for example, in pushing gay marriage to the forefront of the conversation. So biden is looking for someone who is going to complement him in that regard. Going forward from the announcement, i think he wants someone who has a little scrap in them, able to go out and hold their own. Going to take a lot of incoming from the trump team, maybe some corners of the press. So these women hes looking at sort of fit into that bucket nicely. They have the scrappy nature about them they can stand their own ground as they go and talk about what the administration is going to do. I think thirdly hes going to look for someone who can help him lead in the recovery. In the post trump era. How we rebound from covid19. How we reestablish the economy. And how we move forward on some short term term goals the administration wants to set in the first 100 days with the potential Vice President ial nominee leading in some of the quarters. I think biden is in a good position. In some sense, joe, weve sort of vetted his pick all together. So there arent going to be a lot of surprises that were going to see or hear. Let me ask you this, governor wh whitmers name has jumped back into the conversation the past several days. Before George Floyds killing there was talk that whitmer was a leading candidate. Then after the killing and the remarkable protests, people started saying it needed to not just be a woman, it needed to be a black woman. Whats your feeling . Does it need to be a black woman . Could it be Governor Whitmer, where is joe biden in that process . I would contend Governor Whitmer was never off the table. She was probably off the table in some quarters, folks that are their own reasons to push her off the table. From what i understand inside the Biden Campaign she was never taken off the table. Why . Because she brings qualities to the table that are important. Shes a governor governoring through covid19, stood her ground against this president. While the awfulness of floyds murder certainly impacted her in her state, she handled that as well as best she could given the national outcry. So theres there are a lot of things that still kept her with the biden team. I think whether he picks a black woman or not, from what i hear from a number of folks now, thats dissipated a bit. At the end of the day, the question is what are you going to do . Are you going to walk away from the ticket because he picked a qualified woman to be his running mate. So i think people are giving him the benefit of the doubt on that, much more now than three or four weeks ago. Youre writing now about Elizabeth Warren, so would the selection of Elizabeth Warren cause a problem for the Democratic Base does it need to be a block woman or could it be Elizabeth Warren or Governor Whitmer. I got an earful over the weekend from black women organizers, activists, the type of people who really are the get out the vote machine for democrats thats going to produce the kind of turnout that they are going to need to win in november and what they all told me was this is no longer a recommendations for them. This is a requirement. This is something that they will take if he does not pick a black woman as a signal that he does not value them and their contribution to the party. And really because this, as opposed to, you know, a cabinet nomination or a Supreme Court nomination, for example, this is a decision solely up to joe biden and so him saying, you know, i want a black woman as my governing partner a chance to make more history. Theres never been a woman Vice President but theres never been a black woman nominated by a major party so they see that as a return on their investment, if you with will. That investment being the votes that made him the presumptive nominee weeks ahead of schedule. And a lot of them were alarmed when they got wind of the Gretchen Whitmer interview last weekend and were surprised she was still on the table. Governor whitmer is someone focused on addressing the pandemic in her state so his profile was rising with her responding to that as opposed to some of the other people in the conversation who, you know, by associating themselves with the Vice President doing events, were able to raise their profile in this conversation. She didnt necessarily have that challenge. And so, you know, Elizabeth Warren you mentioned, is somebody who i had, you know, a chance to observe her during her 2020 president ial run and she was somebody who, especially a lot of black women, were open to because she talked so much about systemic racism and made the connection between that systemic racism and how she would address that in policy if if she were president. She didnt become the nominee but folks looking at the number two spot knowing thats going to be a woman, for a lot of the black women i hear from, if its not a black woman, Elizabeth Warren is the main white woman whose name i hear saying they would be okay with supporting. But i think for all the conversation what i hear most from black women is not putting a black woman on the ticket could be the difference between black women voters simply showing up in november and really showing out and bringing their sorority, church, salon, their community, the way they do normally when they head to the polls. Mika, joe biden has quite a choice in front of him. But from everything i heard, so much of it is going to come down to who hes most comfortable with. Yeah. Whether its Elizabeth Warren or whether its great chen whitmer, susan rice, Kamala Harris, for joe biden, having a partner in governing obviously is so extraordinarily important to him. From a know your value p perspective im excited theres a strong bench to choose from, so many great options which is hopeful. Well see what happens. Still ahead on morning joe, Chuck Schumer is our guest after calling the president s executive orders on pandemic relief insufficient. Plus the author of a revealing new book on Donald Trumps most divisive and inflew enshl aid, steve miller and how he reportedly made White Nationalist a key part of the agenda. Youre watching morning joe well be right back. Youre watc well be right back. Perfect. Youre welcome. I love it. Howd you do all this . Told ya wayfair. Lets talk dining tables. Yes blow it up. Wayfair youve got just what i need the open road is open again. And wherever youre headed, Choice Hotels is there. Book direct at choicehotels. Com. Did the im sorry, go ahead mika. Okay. Hes been the man behind some of President Trumps most controversial policies and speeches. Now a new book the taking a closer look at Stephen Miller and his impact on the administration. Joining us now Investigative Reporter gene garara, the author of the new book entitled hate mo mongerer. Even the title is harsh but if you do a basic Google Search you see that david duke praising donald trump time and time again for his policies after charlottesville. And you see Stephen Miller as a senate aide passing around articles written in White Nationalist publications and even being praised by White Nationalist richard spencer. What did you find out in researching your book . Stephen miller is a case study, in my book i show how he was indock ternated during a difficult time in his life. His family had lost a lot of money, he was feeling displaced and this is when he meets a conservative writer through his High School Named David Horowitz who introduces Stephen Miller to the fantasy he needs to save the United States from the destruction in the form of too many brown and black people coming here. This is the man who becomes like a father figure to Stephen Miller and believes the racism this is shaping Stephen Millers clear feeding explosive talking points for the Trump Campaign, feeding policies through miller that you saw trump adopting thereafter. So miller, with his help and the help of other extremist mentors learned how to launder white supremacist viewpoints through the language of economics and National Security to make it palatable through the main stream. Thats what i show in my book. So Stephen Miller had a remarkable rise from a congressional aide who would pepper reporters inboxes with talking points about immigration. To a top adviser to Jeff Sessions and now being a powerful voice in the building behind me. See how you see those ideas youre talking about being enacted in policy, what imprint have you seen . I truly believe, you know, after reporting for this book, if you want to understand the disaster that were living today, in 2020, you have to understand Stephen Miller. Stephen miller is a Public Relations flack who at the age of 31 with little policy experience was put in charge of making policies for this country and from day one in the white house he began to narrow the focus of the department of Homeland Security away from its focus of protecting the American People from a broad mandate of protecting them from terrorism, from Public Health crisis like the pandemic into something laser focused on Something Like keeping brown and black people out of the country, people that were asylum seekers, people that didnt break laws, truly families. And for Stephen Miller its about reengineering the demographics of the country. In the book i connect the dots between everything that miller does and his white supremacist influences. Miller pulls policies from think tanks created by White Supremacists who believe in population control for nonwhite people. He pushed through his White Nationalist agenda and as a result of this, from my conversations with officials from the book, americans have been left vulnerable to a range of real threats, including the Public Health crisis were seeing today. This is Michael Steele, to pick up on the reengineering part of this narrative in your book. How has he been able to get the republican establishment, which he presumably been outside of, to so conform in such a short time to this sort of white supremacist narrative . Is that something thats sort of baked into the party . So it was an easy transition . Whats your analysis and what does your book tell us about how he was able to broaden the scope of that philosophy to not just policy but to the body politics as a whole . Thats a great question. As i show in the book, Stephen Miller was instrumental in trumps win in 2016 because of his antiimmigrant agenda. The Republican Party realized the hostility of antiimmigrants was speaking to voters. Beyond that a big part of the reason hes been so influential in the white house is that Stephen Miller gets donald trump in a way i believe no one else in the white house does. Part of it has roots in his childhood, Stephen Millers father was a Real Estate Investor described to me as being trump like, plagued by bankruptcies and legal disputes. He grew up in a similar family is part of it. The other thing is that Stephen Miller, and this is important, Stephen Miller always encourages trumps most aggressive and violent impulses, which trump appreciates because every time he listens to a more moderate adviser he gets pummelled and ridiculed by his base as weak. He wants to be seen as a killer and Stephen Miller shares his instincts for violence. He has his fingers on the pulse of his most violent voting base to see these really hostile policies separating childrens from parents, turning away the most vulnerable, most desperate people at the u. S. mexico border. So all these cruel policies, he needs the, you know, hatred in order to rally people around the policies and hes been effective of getting that hatred through systemic demonization of immigrants as well as the people who support them in the Democratic Party. You know whats fascinating is you are so right. All of the aides that have come in and out of the white house, there have been a steady stream, an unprecedented stream, the one person who has held on is Stephen Miller because Stephen Miller always plays to the lowest common denominator when it comes to antiimmigrant racist rhetoric. The book is hate monger. Jean thank you so much. Thats fascinating that Stephen Miller has held on and held on by being that voice that is the most extreme voice in Donald Trumps ear. And hes held on over the past three and a half years. Whats also interesting is, i laughed about it during the campaign and afterwards, how stupid Donald Trumps argument was about everybody crossing the border. And if you remember throughout 2016 and into 2017, i kept repeating that cross border crossings were at the lowest point in half a century. There was no crisis. When barack Obama Left Office let me say this again because i know, again, people, there is sort of this cult of personality and people get really upset when you give them the facts and they go against the alternative reality that donald trump has spun in their head, when donald trump got into office, you saw him building the wall which by the way he never did, and mexico never paid for that imaginary wall never did. But when he got into the office, cross border illegal crossings were at a 50year low. I was in Elementary School playing tee ball when they were that low. And, you know, im really old. So the point is, donald trump and Stephen Miller are doing and yes, ill say her name again what ann applebalm writes about when she says that victor ormond is still using the invasion of hungary to hold onto power when no such invasion ever took place. They just dont have they just dont have a lot of muslims in hungary, yet he continues to use this lie. Cross border illegal crossings exploded under donald trump. He couldnt do a good a job at it as barack obama. Its a reality if you look at Donald Trumps own numbers inside the government but how fascinating and frightening there are enough people out there who want to be a member of a political cult that they just ignore the facts that even the Trump Administration is putting out. Its hard to watch whats happening to our country, actually. Im going to point out a new study that finds low income voters have the power to affect the outcome of more than a dozen Key Senate Races as well as the president ial election. Joining us now reverend william barber. First of all, tell us about this voting block, and i just wonder, as we look ahead to this election, just the impact on everything thats happening with the election, the president beginning to appear to sow doubt in it, Postal Service problems, how could this voting block be impacted, and how could it be ever so powerful . Thank you so much mika and joe. Before covid there were 140 million poor people in this country. 700 people dying a die from power and wealth according to one report. This new report we sponsored called unleashing the power and the university, and it says clearly the senate is in play and poor folk and low income people have the power to make the play. In 2016, president ial election, there were 138 million votes out of 225 million eligible. 34 million of poor and low income people didnt vote. Many of them said they didnt vote because they didnt hear the issue, they werent talked about. We talked about the middle class and the wealthy. What that meepz is poor and low income people constitute over onefourth of the electorate and its almost 40 of the total population of the voters. What that means today . That means if these potential low income and poor voted at the same rate as middle and high income voters in pennsylvania, in New Hampshire, in minnesota, in maine, florida, new mexico, North Carolina, georgia, texas, mississippi and ohio, if poor and low income voters just 1 to 20 higher, they could fundamentally shift the vote. Michigan is 1 . So its actually not good politically if any party is not reaching out to these voters. And theyre most concerned about raising the living wage. Theyre most concerned about health care. Theyre concerned about racist and Voter Suppression that not only hurts black people. Most white poor people put numberwise there are more white poor but black poor. Not percentagewise, but number. 43 of this country should not be left off the table. They have the power to fundamentally transform this election and elections to come. Mike barnicle is with us, reverend barber, and has a question for you. Mike . Reverend barber, it wasnt that long ago, within the past couple of decades when america was engaged in a war on poverty. For the past 3 1 2 years america has been engaged, at least the top of the american government, has been engaged in a war on poor people. In the last five months or so the battalion of poor people in this country that you just outlined has been joined by a second battalion of formerly middle class people who have nearly lost everything due to the virus and due to the incompetence of the Trump Administration. How do you join those two groups together and get them to vote en masse . Well, youre exactly right. Its been a long time since we have had really a war on poverty. Its actually been longer than 3 1 2 years. Most part, we wrote poverty and the poor out of. We talk about the middle class and wealthy. But in these past few years, even before covid, the Poor Peoples Campaign was organizing in appalachia and in alabama. 143 million poor and low wealth people, 66 million whites, 26 million blacks were beginning to say, wait a minute, this government is not serving us. In fact, its become a war on us. One of the things we found talking to poor people and all across this country, that they are clear that systemic racism, systemic poverty, the war, economy and the false about religious nationalism is hurting us all. I could break down in each of those areas what they mean by racism. Not just black people but brown people and white people. One of the phrases we have now is that if you scratch a lie, youll find a thief. Well, if racism is a lie, so if you scratch a racist youll also find somebody who will steal your health care, who will steal your living wages and who will steal from you, period, regardless of what race you are. In kentucky last year, we saw this play out. What black and white people, we call it from the holler to the hood came together and they fundamentally shifted the electorate in kentucky. Several counties that had been trump counties turned in the last election. We never endorsed the governor, but we talked about the issues. And the governor who is now the governor began to push issues that matter to people regardless of their race, creed and color. What has to happen is to lift up poor and low wealth people, who talk about the issues that impact their lives. If you cant do this in covid, god help us, because what covid has done, it has exposed too fissures in this society and that is systemic racism and systemic poverty. We talk about those issues and lift up those issues, it actually brings people together. You can actually have a grownup conversation about racism and about poverty in this moment. And it can fundamentally change the electorate. Not just now but in the days to come. And in the years to come. And so what we need politicians so often in the past, lets be honest, republicans have racialized politics, democrats have run from poverty. Republicans are making a matter of personal choice. Democrats talk about those trying to get into the middle class or just the middle class. Stop that and talk about poor and low income people. Even in 2016. The fact of the matter, according to a New York Times charge, according to a New York Times chart, poor and low income people under 50,000 actually voted more than democrats, but too often those persons are not talked to. And we leave 34 Million People off the table and unengaged in our electorate and you cannot do that if you want to fundamentally transform this democracy. Reverend barber, thank you so much. Well be following todays moral monday marion line. Thank you very much. Still ahead concerns the president s executive order on pandemic relief could be unconstitutional and ineffective. Plus, major changes to the u. S. Postal service that democrats say are meant to undermine the influx of mailin ballots ahead of the election. Top Senate Democrat Chuck Schumer joins us. Morning joe is coming right back. Dont just think about where youre headed this summer. Think about how youll get there. And now that you can lease or buy a new lincoln remotely or in person. Discovering that feeling has never been more effortless. Accept our summer invitation to get 0 apr on all 2020 lincoln vehicles. Only at your lincoln dealer. I wanted my hepatitis c gone. I put off treating mine. Epclusa treats all main types of chronic hep c. Whatever your type, epclusa could be your kind of cure. I just found out about mine. I knew for years. Epclusa has a 98 overall cure rate. I had no symptoms of hepatitis c mine caused liver damage. Epclusa is only one pill, once a day, taken with or without food for 12 weeks. 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Were going to have tremendous growth. This next year, it will be toward the end of the year. The growth is going to be incredible and at the right time we will take a look at that. Early this year, President Trump hinted at cutting entitlements. Over the weekend, he effectively did. Good morning. Welcome to morning joe. It is monday, august 10th. Along with joe and me, we have nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of kasie d. C. On msnbc, kasie hunt, msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the Republican National committee, Michael Steele is with us. White house reporter for the associated press, Jonathan Lemire. And former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst, Steve Rattner is with us. Joe, a lot happening over the weekend. Weve got major covid19 news as well. Yeah, a lot happening over the weekend. Of course, a lot of chaos, of course, coming from the white house. Jonathan lemire, we have economists, we have people on the hill, we have business owners, we have ceos, we even have well, we have white house officials that are sort of scratching their heads and asking what exactly happened on friday. The president tried to look like he was in control by pushing unconstitution unconstitutional president ial directives which, again, seemed to go in all of these Different Directions. If that wasnt enough, friday night we had yet another trump friday night massacre where the new head of the post office just, again, not trying to hide it at all. Apparently doing whatever he can to sow chaos inside the post office as he and donald trump both appear to be working together to sow seeds of doubt on whether the post office is going to be able to carry out its functions as we move towards the most important election in our lifetime. Certainly the most important election as it has to do with the post offices participation. Try to tell us all the things that were going on friday and this weekend. Yeah, joe, it was a remarkable weekend. I was traveling with the president as part of the press pool of reporters. He spent the weekend at his golf club in bedminster, new jersey. On friday, we werent expecting to see him. Reporters got a lid, which is to say the president wouldnt be appearing in public. That lid was lifted and we were summoned to his golf course in bedminster. Ill take a second to paint what is a pretty surreal scene. The president with the president ial seal and podium and monitors behind him, delivered a News Conference with an audience. The audience being members of his country club, who we witnessed come downstairs from the upstairs dining room. Many of them drinks in hand. Most of them not wearing masks. As they took up space in the back of the room, not socially distanced, as you can see there, and seemingly in the state of new jerseys guidelines for covid19. There are if its a political event, which this was deemed, you could have up to 100 or so people in a room like that. There was more if you count the press, secret service, and they werent six feet apart. As the president spoke, the crowd tended to boo the reporters and applaud him. It had the makings of a small political rally in what was obviously a very official white house event. Ill tick through it real quick. On friday night he said he threatened these executive actions were coming. On saturday he summoned us back to the golf club and signed them. The takeaway seems to be two things. One, real doubts about whether they are constitutional. Whether or not the president has the authority to take the powers of the purse from congress, taxing and spending. They expect legal challenges. Democrats were very critical yesterday on the sunday morning talk shows. A expect well see a lot on the legal front in the days ahead. Also, a question of whether or not theres as much here as the president says. First, the Unemployment Benefits were 600 a week. Now its 400. And the white house wants states to pick up 100 of that. Thats actually reducing the federal contribution from 600 to 300. As he left new jersey, the president said maybe the federal government will fund the full 400. The evictions moratorium, its about exploring how to stop that. If theres no real teeth behind that. Certainly, joe, youre right, the other story was the postmaster general. The president on the tarmac yesterday coming back to washington, said, hes always been defending it, the post office loses money, it needs reforms, but we know this has been a part of the allout assault on mailin balloting ahead of the election adding to the chaos. Mika, there are one of two choices. If you support the president , you can either say the president is in intentionally sabotaging the United States post office and the runup to the most important election of our lifetime when the post office will be playing the most Important Role and the president has decided to put a man in place with no postal background for the first time this decades. In that key position. You can say, yeah, okay, donald trump is intentionally trying to sabotage the elections. Or, two, he is performing, which is the equivalent of, at this point, injecting somebodys body that has covid with bleach and disinfectants and trying to stick uv lights in there. And its complete, absolute ignorance of a situation. Regardless whether its incompetence or intentional undermining of our democracy, there arent really a lot of good ways to look at this. And it does appear to be one of the great challenges that will be facing this country in the next two to three months. Having a president and postmaster general who at the worst time possible are passing measures, putting measures into effect that will undermine democracy. Were going to get to the economic and political factcheck of the president s moves in just a moment. Youre right, the fact is, its happening. But first, where things stand with the virus. The u. S. Surpassing 5 million covid19 cases. The alarming tally, which really puts us number one in the world, has doubled since late june. Right now the country holds about a quarter of the worlds cases. While topping the list for most reported coronavirus deaths globally. We top the list for people who have died of coronavirus. So fash five states account for more than 40 of infections nationwide. Hot spots continue to grapple with rising cases like florida, which just yesterday reported nearly 6,2500 cases and set a new weekly record for covid19 hospitalizations. Over the weekend, california confirmed more than 10,000 deaths. Since the start of the crisis. And more than 500,000 covid cases in all. Texas also confirmed more than 500,000 cases as Governor Greg Abbott extended his disaster declaration due to the pandemic. Meanwhile, Governor Andrew Cuomo announced that new york reported its lowest positive test rate since the start of the outbreak. They have done it right there. As we mentioned, President Trump signed a series of his executive actions over the weekend expanding coronavirus economic relief, upending negotiations with congress after lawmakers failed to reach a deal with the white house. Among the directives announced from his new jersey golf club, include deferring payroll taxes through the end of the year for americans earning less than 100,000. They also defer student loan payments through 2020, discourage evictions and extend enhanced Unemployment Benefits. The payments will be at a reduced rate of 400 a week instead of the previous 600 that democrats have been pushing to reinstate. The federal government will only cover 75 of that cost with the other 25 falling back on the states. Here was trumps justification for that decision. Why did you decide on 400 when previously families were receiving 600. That will be a hardship for many. This isnt a hardship. This is the money they need and this gives them a great incentive to go back to work. I love the guy who claims to be a billionaire many times over telling unemployment families, families faced with unemployment, what they dont need. Oh, no, no, no, they dont need that money. No, no, no. This is exactly what they need. This is exactly what they want. It is, though, of course most likely unconstitutional because you have the president , again, once again infringing on article i powers as far as spending and taxing. And, Steve Rattner, its just a bizarre list that he put out there. He has had this obsession for some time about payroll taxes and cutting payroll taxes when economists, republicans, democrats, just about everybody on the hill have said this does not make sense. This does not work. Especially when you have so many people who are out of work and arent paying payroll taxes right now. But take us through this bizarre laundry list of proposals by the president , most of which will, im sure, be declared unconstitutional in time. Yeah, joe. It is a bizarre laundry list. I think the president is was in a bad place politically. He had been outmaneuvered by the democrats who passed their 3. 4 trillion measure in may and the republicans until a few weeks ago hadnt been able to agree on a counteroffer. I think he felt he needed to do something to show the American People he was doing something. But as you say, its a bizarre list. Its a lot of odds and ends. I think frankly we can eliminate plate the executive order but it isnt more than he declared National Ice Cream day or a minor matter. By my account, a couple hundred billion dollars that may get to americans. The bid ask on the hill was between 1 trillion and 3. 4 trillion. If you want to focus on payroll taxes for a second, you can see whats going to happen there. Its not an actual payroll tax deduction. He doesnt have the authority to do that. Its a payroll tax deefrl until the end of the year. If congress doesnt act at some point, people would actually have to pay that money to the government. And because of all that confusion, its not clear that employers would cooperate in reducing them for now since they might have the liability. Thirdly, hes taking the money, 44 billion from fema, from Disaster Relief at a time when everyone is expecting a busy Hurricane Season and weve already had a bad storm. And so all in all, its not much of anything. The last point id make about it, its not economically progressive, in a sense. Yes, it is capped at 104,000, but if you make 90,000, youre going to get nine times the benefit that someone who made 10,000 is getting. And you can contrast that to what the democrats wanted and what we did in the spring where checks of 1,200 to all americans below a certain income with a gradual phase out for the wealthier americans. Just to take that one provision, it doesnt make a whole lot of sense. Up next well get reaction to the president s actions, including a scathing response from republican ben sass. Morning joe is back in a moment. Morning joe is back ina moment the open road is open again. And wherever youre headed, Choice Hotels is there. Book direct at choicehotels. Com. Every time you touch a surface, bacteria is left behind. At choicehotels. Com. Now, consider how many times your family touches the surfaces in your home in 24 hours. Try new microban 24. 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He issues a statement which in part reads, the pen and phone theory of executive law making is unconstitutional slop. President obama did not have the power to unilaterally rewrite Immigration Law with daca and President Trump does not have the power to unilaterally rewrite the payroll tax law. He went on to say, under the constitution, that power belongs to the American People acting through their members of congress. Its really needs to be more. Meanwhile, the wall street Journal Editorial Board is criticizing President Trumps new executive orders writing in part this, the good news is that President Trump on saturday escaped the 1 trillion terms of surrender demanded by House Speaker nancy pelosi. The bad news is, he followed the barack obama method with executive orders, one of which stretches the law in a way that a future, progressive president will surely cite as a precedent. Michael steele, lets just step back for one second and take a look at this and realize what republicans are doing here. They are setting a precedent. You know, theyre so shortsighted because theyre thinking that donald trump is going to be president forever. And theyre so shortsighted that they dont realize that they are going to have a generation in the minority to think about all the mistakes they made while trump was president and all the precedents they set for the line of democratic president s who are going to be elected after this fall, because you look at the demographic changes, you look at the Republican Party in disarray. I think there are going to be democrats elected to the white house for quite some time. What have they done . They have so undermined their position as legislators by deferring time and time again to Donald Trumps unconstitutional power grabs that as the wall street journal said in that editorial, theyre giving future president Kamala Harris all the excuses that she needs to do something on abortion, to do something on gun laws, to do something on whatever they think theyre the most afraid of. She can just do a president ial directive and say, donald trump did it, ted cruz said nothing about it, im good. Yeah, this is the constitutional slop that ben sasse referred to. And the one thing about constitutional slop, it doesnt go down easy. It doesnt go down easily at all. And the republicans are going to rue this moment. They in some respects already have because the question becomes ultimately, joe, so what . And thats Donald Trumps bottom line. Im going to do this. What are you going to do about it . And so whether youre talking about some type of legislative remedy or some type of legal remedy, okay, you go do that. In the meantime, ive already set the pattern in motion. Ive already established what im going to do. Im going to go forward. Let me know when you catch up. So, this idea that began going back about 20 years now of an executive story that is unchecked, weve given the executive branch an enormous amount of power, the congress has ceded an enormous amount of ground to this executive authority, by allowing these things to happen. And the question becomes for republicans, particularly after this administration and what weve seen the president do, what do you say when a democratic president moves on, like you said, abortion, the environment, health care and a hoe host of other issues because they figure, well, i dont like what congress is putting forth. Im not going to sign off on their bill, so im going to go ahead and create an executive order that will raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires. Im going to go ahead and put an executive order that is going to, you know, restrict, you know, companies and what theyre doing in the environment. So, these are the stones that are being laid now on a path that republicans, while they were crying, i think rightly about what obama did with daca through executive orders, are now silent. They better Pay Attention to what ben sasse is saying. This is the problem for Mitch Mcconnell, how do you get out of this constitutional slop, how do you now reposition the senate going into this november election because on the back end of this, its not a whole lot of good for you. Speaking of the senate, up next were joined by minority leader Chuck Schumer. The new york democrat joins us live straight ahead on morning joe. Joe. 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It will depend on the state theyll make an application. Well look at it and make a decision. It may be they theyll pay nothing in some instances. It will be like the national guard. The national guard, sometimes well pay all of it depending on the tragedy or whatever it may be, the disaster, and sometimes the state will pay 40 , 10 , 25 or nothing, depending on how it works out. At a minimum, we will put in 300 bucks and the states will continue with their 400 bucks, but i think all they have to do is put up an extra dollar and well be able to throw in the extra 100. It should be a total it may not be in every case because as you know, were talking averages. Some states higher, some states lower. But on average, dana, it will run to about 800. But the executive action says wage increase. The executive action says 400 and the state would pay 25 of this. Youre talking about some other money that i dont know about. Well, you know, we will stand ready to repurpose if states put in a little more, is all it amounts to. Okay. Right now that numbers going to run around 700. I think theyll get to 800. Some states can get above 800 with our federal help. We need a bit of a reality check here. You do agree that the only way any of this could possibly happen is if the states actually ask for it and create a whole new system, and is that what your expectation is . Well, look, if thats thats like topping it off. State benefits, i mean, were talking about averages here across the country. Well, one of the things i learned here at the white house going through a lot of work on executive orders is what we have the statutory authorities to do. Im confident that every single one of those orders, which cleared through the office of legal counsel, will stand up. If you look, for example, at the eviction and foreclosure language, in your opener there, you noted the words, shall consider. Well, thats how you have to write it, but Everybody Knows in that bureaucracy that you damn well should do it and they will. It really is i know im not supposed to laugh at this. Im not going to say the word. Theyre just making stuff up. Its really it is remarkable that at this stage of the Trump Administration, administration that started with people like james mattis and gary cohn in the white house and mcmaster in the white house, theyre now to the point where theyre just making stuff up. Navarro, of course, well, you know, shall consider means you better darn do it. No, it doesnt. It just means, just consider. Thats like me saying to my kids, i order you to maybe go to sleep at 11 00 tonight. I insist that you think about doing your homework. It doesnt work. And then kudlow, he says hes just throwing numbers around. Oh, well, maybe we give them more, maybe we give them less, depends on what the state no. You wrote an executive order that says youre going to give a certain amount and states are going to give a certain amount and now youre just making things up. Of course, there are only three people out there that will get this reference, which is why im going to do it. He sondz like ron de kline from the rudles. You want the money . I dont know where the money is, but if you want the money, ill get you the money. I dont know. Theyre just making things up. And it just goes back to me being just absolutely staggered at how stupid they think the American People are. How stupid they think republicans are. How stupid they think voters are. On that high note, lets bring in minority leader in the United States senate, Chuck Schumer. Chuck, ive got a question for you, my man, because im a simple man. Im a dumb country lawyer. I dont really understand this constitution thing. Of course, you know we republicans all carry around that little constitution in our pocket and then at times well pull it out like were pulling out a shield against leftwing au autocracy. That little constitution we carried around in our coat pockets, it said article i powers were the power to tax and spend. That means that congress can do what donald trump is claiming to do. Not donald trump. So, where does donald trump get the authority to do any of that stuff . Well, he just makes things up. Donald trump is the fables president. He just makes things up as they go. What you saw kudlow say, which would be laughable if it werent so sad, 400, 300, 800. He had no idea hes ready to go on a show before the American People and had no idea what the actual executive order said. Its a metaphor. The towering and and incompetence of this administration is why the coronavirus is raging here where in most european countries, most countries, asian countries, have gotten a handle on it. Trump has never believed none the people around him believe things are on the level. If you spoke truth to power to the president , youre gone. And this incompetence is what you know, this is whats pushing many voters who voted for trump, not the hard core, but that, say, 15 , away from him. For the first time theyve seen this incompetence, they sort of suspected, but affecting them directly and they know it and it started when trump denied the crisis all together. Its a hoax. It will go away. Dont worry about it. When he couldnt put a testing regime together. I called on him on march 6th. Thats four months ago, to use the dpa and set up a real testing regime. They still havent done it. Its one of the reasons covid is still raging. Its why these executive orders are laughable. This Unemployment Insurance one that kudlow so mauled is not going to be able to be put into place for a month or two, if at all. So here well have through september, all the people not t getting the money and the 600 they have no respect for the American People. Thats part of the hardright philosophy. People, if they have a job, theyll sit back and take the money. Thats not what American Workers are like. They want a job, they want a permanent longterm job that will give them work and have pride in life. Heres the most amazing thing, joe. 20 republican senators, some of whom running for president in 2024, dont want to spend one nickel. That, i would ask them to go back into the history books and look up a word. Herbert hoover, when after the crash said, dont spend any money, and we have the great depression. If we were to listen to them, trurp by the way, meadows in our negotiations seems to have that philosophy as well. Not mnuchin, but meadows. If they persist on doing these things, its going to get much worse. So, we want to come up with a strong plan. The heroes bill was not a wish list. We stud dwred the needs of how to get enough money to open up schools safely, of how to do testi testing, of what the state and local governments needed, how we run the post office, how we have elections, how we feed the hungry, and we came up with a strong plan. But we even were willing because we so much want to get this done, we said to the president s negotiators last week, well meet you in the million. Well cut a trillion, you raise a trillion. They said, absolutely not. I said, its your way or the highway . Yep. They will not deal adequately with testing, with schools opening safely, from people being evicted from their homes, Unemployment Insurance, with state and local needs. It will be a disaster. So, why i hope im sorry. I hope senior voices in the senior party will prevail and say, sit down with pelosi, sit down with schumer, and meet them in the middle. Were waiting for them to come back and say yes. You talked about the president surrounding himself with yes men, people that wouldnt cross him. I just got to say, side bar here, the most remarkable example of that for me recently has been the fact that the Intelligence Community for quite some time knows Vladimir Putin has put bounties on the heads of Young American troops. In march, inside white house, they were desperately getting the. The to do something, but they were afraid to brief him on it because they knew it would make him angry. So, what is the next step you know, what is the next step . Lets go from the relief hold one second, senator. First, weve talked about the relief bill. Ive just got to talk about something a lot of people are concerned about, and that is the friday night massacre at the United States post office. Thats the president seemingly intent on reeking havoc on that institution, to slow down packaging and to possibly impact the election and how many votes can be counted. What can the United States house do to make sure the president doesnt undermine the election . The president has wanted to destroy the post office. He gets these little bugs in his head that have nothing to do with reality. No one tells him the truth. So, hes wanted to hurt the post office, maybe destroy it, end it, for a long time. Now we have the covid crisis. And like everywhere else, some postal workers have covid. Instead of beefing up the number of people at the post office, the new postmaster general, who has no experience in postal and a big contributor to trump, i called him, by the way, three times because i want to talk to him about what he was doing. He would not call me back. Finally pelosi and i said, were not going to negotiate with them until we meet him. And the meeting is a disgrace. He is so far over his head. And to cut back on overtime, to cut back on the number of employees, particularly during the covid crisis ill get to the elections in a minute but what about the people that need their medicine . What about the necessities sent through the mail because people dont go out and shop . I think whats motivating trump and his henchmen at the head of the post office is to screw up the system so they can claim the elections arent done properly. If the mail is late, it doesnt work. What can we do about it . We are insisting in this covid heroes bill, that first the Postal Service get the money it needs so it can hire people, so it can put in quloeovertime. Thats what the experts tell us they need. Second, if they dont rescind this language, and we made a strong pitch for them to rescind these rules that limit overtime, that dont allow them to hire people, we can insist and put it in the bill. Thats one of our top priorities. I told them, were not giving in on them. This is so vital. The fact that these guys would take the wellspring of our democracy, elections, and mess with them, whether its russian interference. That seems to be okay with donald trump. Whether its not giving the states the money they need to adjust to many more people who will vote by mail and a need to have more places where people can drop things off so there will be social distancing if they dont want to vote by mail, the fact theyre messing around with the post office. These are all the wellsprings of our democracy. If americans believe after november that the elections werent fair, where are we headed . Thats been the core of the thats what men and women have died for, the right to vote in a free and fair election. Weve been the hallmark of america. Trump is trying to destroy it. We i think its vital to prevent that from happening and were using every way we can, including this covid bill, to make sure they dont do it. Leader schumer, its kasie hu hunt. This is all predicated on you passing a massive covid package. Nice to see you. The president said last night, the democrats have called. They would like to get together and we say if its not a waste of time, well do it. Do you know what hes talking about . Fables from donald trump. Fables. Thats what he seems to specialize in. I didnt call him. Speaker pelosi didnt call him. No, we didnt call him. He makes these things up or hears from somebody at one of his fundraisers or country club, oh, the democrats are calling you, and he acts like its true. Heres how we left it. On thursday, i believe it was, we said, were willing to come down 1 trillion, you come up 1 trillion. When youre ready, come back and talk to us. Heres what i think might happen. This is an optimistic scenario. The republicans are in a pickle. You have 20 of them who dont want any money whatsoever and then you have 10 or 15, some running for reelection desperate to get a package. Theyre all hanging their hats on this executive order. That will solve the problem with we wont have to do anything. Its clear these executive orders are going to be men malat best. Ive called them paltry or three words ive used which seems to be in the currency, unworkable, narrow and scanty. Theyre just theyre all they just wont work. It may well be that the republicans are willing to now sit down with us because they see what they were hanging their hat on, these executive orders are just being more or less regarded at best as ineffective and laughed at at worst. And hopefully Mike Barnicle is with us. Were ready. But they have to meet us in the middle. They cant just come to the table and say its our way or no way. Well never get a deal. The deal is not because we want to thwart them, but because what theyre the greatest economic problem since the depression, the greatest Health Care Problem since the spanish flu. We need bold action. Were not going to settle for some skimpy thing that doesnt work. What i called it, by the way what ive been calling them, what ive been calling this is unworkab unworkable, i cant remember the words, but theyre good. Mike barnicle is with us and has a question for you. Mike. Fair too narrow. Thats it. Senator, let me interrupt you here for a second and ask you a simple question. Millions of americans are now on the verge of economic collapse that will take them years to recover from. Mnuchin and mark meadows come up to your office or speaker pelosis office daily to discuss this problem. Have you seen any evidence from them during these negotiations in the past three days that the president of the United States is actively involved on a minutebyminute basis in these negotiations . In the last 72 hours, has the president of the United States called you personally to see if something cant get done . No, ive seen zero, zero evidence that hes involved at all. And he has not called us. I havent spoken to him i spoke to him during the last bill when mnuchin was there. Meadows wasnt. We got more done. But i havent spoken to him since. All right. Thank you so much. Its great to have you on, Chuck Schumer. We greatly appreciate it. You know, mika, just to talk about the severity of this crisis, Robert Samuelsson in the Washington Post wrote this in a mustread oped. Lets call it what it is, were in a pandemic depression. He writes, it must be clear to almost everyone by now the sudden and sharp economic down turn that began in late march is something more than a severe recession. That label was, perhaps, justifiable in the 2008 Great Recession when unemployment reached a peak of 10 . It isnt now. The situation is so dire that it deserves to be called a depression. A pandemic depression. And in the middle of what Robert Samuelsson labels a pandemic depression, we actually have a major party that is suggesting that we do absolutely nothing in the senate. That the president goes out and does some bizarre executive order that makes absolutely no sense on friday. And people in the middle of this pandemic depression are still suffering waiting for some aid from washington, d. C. To get them through august and get aring their kids back to school in the fall. Things are breaking down on every level. Now to unprecedented access that nbc news got on the wuhan lab President Trump claims leaked the coronavirus. Joining us from wuhan, china, janis mackey frayer. What did you find out . Reporter well, we spent months trying to get access to this lap here b here in wuhan, s fueling this intense political dispute over where and how the virus started. Mystery surrounds the High Security Lab at the Wuhan Institute of virology which handles the worlds most dangerous pathogens, which makes it the target of conspiracy theories about the origin of the virus. Youre 100 confident theres no leak, no accident . Im confident. Reporter the institute granted nbc news the First Independent media access to the lab. The director. Translator we had an encounter this Novel Coronavirus before, he says. Without having this virus, theres no way it could be leaked from the lab. Reporter has anyone at the lab, either personnel or connected to the lab, a thirdparty contractor, tested positive for this virus . No. Reporter nobody . Nobody. Reporter while theres some skepticism about the labs claims, five leading virologists familiar with Lab Protocols told us its improbable the virus somehow escaped. This is a rare glimpse at the bsl4 lab, a box within a box, with air locks on doors and separate filtration systems. Technicians were trained in france and the u. S. Windows to look out and see in. The china virus, the china plague. Kung flu. Reporter for months the u. S. And china have been locked in a battle about the or other begin of the virus, and accusations that china delayed or did not share information. Its theres evidence it came from a laboratory. Reporter u. S. Officials have yet to offer credible proof the virus came from a wuhan lab, a theory knocked down by dr. Fauci for lacking any scientific evidence. Scrutiny grew longer with the state Department Cable dated january 2018 with lack security and trained staff. The u. S. Diplomats visited only once in march 2018 for a seminar that wasnt about biosafety. At that time the u. S. Officials didnt visit any of the labs, so im not really sure what the source of the information was for those concerns. For 15 years virologist peter collaborated with wuhan scientists, like chinas bat woman, to catalog hundreds of bat coronaviruses. In april the nih killed funding for his new york based eco alliance because of his links to the lab. More or less all the bat coronavirus, whether theyve done that, has been done in collaboration with us. Almost all of it. So we know they did not have isolates of a virus that leads to covid19 in the lab. Reporter china faces intense backlash for failing to contain the virus and for a lack of transparency that has allowed speculation about blame to flourish. What do you say to somebody who says, i dont believe you . Its unfortunate that we have been targeted as the escape gsc. Deep down inside we know we are innocent. Reporter weve been told the wuhan lab will join what the World Health Organization calls a scientific study. But that it wont be investigated as a possible origin for the virus. Now, the World Health Organization has had an advanced team here. Theyve laid the groundwork. A larger w. H. O. Team, that includes international and chinese scientists, are likely to get started in the next few weeks. But already the state Department Says that it expects an investigation that is completely whitewashed. They sent us a statement overnight that didnt exactly address whether u. S. Diplomats had actually seen the wuhan lab. But they did reiterate that the criticism that theyve had for china over their lack of transparency. Guys . All right. Nbcs janis mackey frayer. Thank you so much for that exclusive report. Still ahead, after resigning from congress, last october, katie hill is reflecting on her journey from capitol hill to the author of an insightful new book on what led her to step down. And much more. Morning joe is back in a moment. Techand your car. , were committed to taking care of you tech well fix it right with nocontact service you can trust. Tech so if you have auto glass damage, stay safe with safelite. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. The open road is open again. And wherever youre headed, Choice Hotels is there. Book direct at choicehotels. Com. vo because we know you want to get back to going your speed. Steering life at 10 and 2. Youre prepared for this. And so are we. Soon youll get back to skipping the counter without missing a beat. Back to choosing any car in the aisle. Back to being the boss of you. Go national. Go like a pro. So heres to the strong, who trust in our performance and comfortable, longlasting protection. Because your strength is supported by ours. Depend. The only thing stronger than us, is you. Breinventing. Its what iwith comcast business, your Small Business can work faster, with powerful internet from the nations largest gigspeed network. Work safer, with all your connected devices automatically protected by securityedge. And work anywhere, with comcast business at home, our new businessgrade Internet Solution for remote workers. Whatever your business needs, comcast business has the solutions to help you not just bounce back, but bounce forward. Call or go online to find out more. Joining us now, former democratic congresswoman katie hill of california. Shes the author of the new book she will rise becoming a warrior in the battle for true equality which comes out tomorrow. Katie, welcome back to the show. Its good to see you. So many questions. Id love to hear about the journey and your thought process in terms of writing this book. What was the message you wanted to share. Sure. This has been a crazy year for me, right . My brother died shortly after i resigned. Im so sorry. Thank you. But what i decided in writing this book, i needed to lay out what is going to be my mission for moving forward. And thats supporting women getting elected for office and helping to dismantsle the road bl blocks we all face to facing misogynistic society and how were going to be able to change that. The bottom line is we need to elect more women up and down the ballot and for us to achieve change, thats what its going to take. And you were one of those women who were elected. So i guess, how much does your book address your departure and what happened during that time . Yeah, the first chunk of my book is really about what led to, you know, my resignation. What led me in my life to where i was, including the resignation. At the time, i felt like it was the best and the only decision for me to make for myself, my family, my constituents, my colleagues, my staff. And you know, i cant say that i regret it, but i also feel theres a lot more that i can do by, you know, being on the outside and helping support dozens of women, maybe over the course of time, hundreds of women to make it into office and be real leaders and help make the changes that we need. Kasie hunt . So katie, do you regret at all stepping back . Do you feel as though the system in the situation that you found yourself in was more likely to push a woman out than perhaps a man . I think the system was absolutely more likely to push a woman out than a man, and i feel like, you know, we see the double standards play out in so many different ways. Were seeing it play out in the Vice President ial pick and the way that women are described the women who are in the running for that are described as overly ambitious or, you know, too in it for themselves. And youre just going to see that over and over again. But, yes, i think that the salaciousness of what happened with me and the fact that i was a woman, a young woman, all contributed to me feeling like i needed to step down. And katie, how selfreflective are you about that experience . You were a victim of revenge porn. Im personally glad youre fighting back. Im glad youre back on television. Im glad youre working on your career again and you havent let it destroy you. You were reportedly threatened by your exhusband that he would ruin you. And im glad youre fighting back. I just have to ask, though, do you regret, as pictures were released, anything about your life . Its totally wrong that the pictures were released, and thats worth fighting for, but anything about what happened in your life during that time, how selfreflective are you on a balanced level . Are there things you wouldnt have done looking back . Of course theres things i wouldnt have done. Writing this book and being quarantined, theres been nothing but selfreflection. Probably the longest period in my life to have done that. Some of the mistakes are obvious, and i think when it comes down to it, the simplest way of describing it is that i allowed myself to get too close to my staff and to not draw, you know, the clear boundaries that you should have. And i think that was a trap that i fell into for a number of things i discussed in the book, including the relationship that i had with my husband. But the biggest guilt that i feel around it is the way this whole thing has impacted my staff and i hope that, you know, i can gain trust and forgiveness moving forward. Thats part of the work that i do now. Totally get what youre saying. The new book is she will rise becoming a warrior in the battle for true equality. Katie hill, ive tried to reach out to you a few times. Your staff loves you very much. They were very protective and hung up on me, but in like a good way. So i do understand those regrets, and i wish you the best and come back. Good luck with the book. Thank you so much. Good to see you. Katie hill, thank you. Michael steele, final word this morning. Okay. Were not going to hear michaels words. I bet theyre great, too. How about Mike Barnicle . Final words this morning. Do we have your audio . Hey, well, how about Chuck Schumer just on National Television indicating that the president of the United States is invisible in these negotiations that affect millions of lives here in the United States of america. Invisible. Doesnt participate. All right. We will be watching this, praying for someone to speak out on the republican side. We love you, Michael Steele. That does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Thanks, mika. Hi there. Im stephanie ruhle. It is monday, august 10th. And here are the facts at this hour. As of this morning, the United States has hit another milestone. More than 5 million cases of coronavirus across the nation. That number has doubled in just the past 44 days. More than 163,000 american lives have been lost. At the very same time, more than 30 million americans are collecting Unemployment Benefits, and they need serious