Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20201019

He wants to lock down. Hell listen to the scientists. If i listened totally to the scientists we would have a country in a massive depression. Okay, President Trump making dr. Faucis point for him. Good morning and welcome to morning joe can we stop there for a second. Sure. Because exactly in first couple of minutes, we saw two contrasts of america. And one of them actually is based on science. Years of study. Centuries of study. Yeah. On education, on knowledge. On the very things that got us im serious here. Got us out of medieval times. Got us out of the middle ages, the age of enlightenment, the age of reason, and of medicine and science and learning versus Donald Trumps very medieval view of the world, of science yes, if you had listened to science, donald, 220,000 people wouldnt be dead right now. You know, its really, mika thats a fact. One of the more surprising things for me have been a number of friends, some very good friends that i have. A number of friends, number of acquaintances, a number of educated people who still are believing what they read on facebook and still believing what they hear from donalds mouth, which is that this is all a political hoax. Still believe that. That friends who tell me that this is going to be over, that covid is going to be over the day after the election. Because they believe that this is a political hoax. They still believe that 220,000 people buried their loved ones and thousands of people will be suffering from the consequences of having this disease for the rest of their lives. In furtherance of a political hoax. My friends who tell me, its no worse than the flu. Its the same thing as a flu when donald trump himself told bob woodward back in february it was five times deadlier than the flu. Its why whats happening right now is far more than a referendum on Donald Trumps four years in office, his political views, his political agenda. Because he really doesnt have a political agenda. He is a president who is governed by gesture. This is instead a referendum on a lot more. A referendum on whether we believe our constitution says what it says. Or whether we want to have a president who runs around saying that article 2 gives him the power to do whatever he wants to do, that the media is in Josef Stalins worlds the enemy of the people that there are no legitimate checks and balances against him. That the entire concept of madisonian democracy over 240 years is for nil when it comes to him. And then add on science. Add on medicine. Add on basic learning and you have that versus superstition. This is please. If you dont think people arent going to look back at those rallies with the same horror that we now look back on the salem witch trials, you dont think thats going to happen 50 years from now, 100 years from now . Youre kidding yourself. In the middle of a pandemic, long after we are all gone, people will be showing these images and asking what happened to america or at least a large subset of america and what happened was donald trump and history and americans in the future are going to have to grapple with that, as those who are working day in and day out to further his agenda or the tens of the millions of people who are actually going along with this. And actually believing that Anthony Fauci actually is making money off of vaccines. A lie that continues to spread on facebook. I do wonder, mika, when this is all over, the facebook reckoning. You know, its so hilarious. I saw an oped in the wall street journal yesterday and the columnist whose name doesnt deserve to be repeated on this program was talking about the liberal dominance of facebook. Yeah. Its so bad that the most viewed sites on facebook are all right wing. Not conservative. Theyre all right wing extremists who are pushing alternative facts. Thats what facebook had become. Its become a propaganda outfits. Democrats are so stupid, they really are. Democrats and liberals in the media are so, so stupid. Why . Because somebody will say, oh, facebook is facebook is unfair to conservatives. What do we do . What do we cant have them calling us bad yes, you can. Like thats what conservatives think they can lie through their teeth. These rightwingers think that wall street editorial pages they can lie through their teeth and talk about facebook having problems and twitter having problems with a story that even the New York Post knew it was such a lie. Well get to this. But okay. That they put a womans name on the story reportedly that didnt even know her name was going to be on the story. The man who wrote the story knew it was such a lie. The New York Post knew it was such a lie that he refused to put his name on that story. They published a series of lies, penned them by Rudy Giuliani who admitted that nobody else would take it, but Rupert Murdochs New York Post because they might look into it and tell the truths and democrats say, what are we going to do . Im not talking about democrats now. Im just saying historically. Republicans have been able to lie like this and columnists at the wall street journal editorial page, what are we going to do about the liberal problem at facebook . When, again, day in and day out the most viewed pages on facebook, the most shared pages on facebook are from rightwing conspiracy theorists, antiantitrumpers who presented the disgusting, twisted view of the world. And then republicans like josh holly i mean, seriously, i dont know him at all, but hes ever the stupidest person to walk through the halls of congress or the most disingenuous. He said, we have a problem, we need to censor facebook. Really, josh . Oh, youre a conservative. And you have to censor a private i got problems with mark zuckerberg. I think two thirty should be eliminated. I think they should be broken up after 2000, after they let the russians in. But josh you want to censor a company, thats private, really . Didnt you go to Harvard Law School or something, like seriously . Did they teach you you can ban private businesses now . No, where i went we didnt learn that in law school. So mika, theyre whipping up all of this nonsense, all of this garbage, antiscience, antifirst amendment, antitruth and we still have a race thats too close to call. You know, you talk about names that are not worth mentions on this show, there are a lot of names worth mentioning related to the wall street journal. I know you used to have Great Respect for the wall street journal and i would watch editorial page. Watch some of the best writers on television saying that the press is all focused on coronavirus like coronavirus isnt a big story. Look at the number on the screen. Its a crazy time in terms of what people will do to try and deny facts. With us we have White House Reporter for the Associated Press, Jonathan Lemire. Host of Msnbcs Politicsnation and president of the National Action network, reverend al sharpton. And host of way too early, kasie hunt is with us. So the president wakes up in nevada before heading to arizona for a Campaign Event and the latest cbs news yougov poll from arizona has trump and biden statistically tied, biden 50 . Trump 47 . The president held several Campaign Rallies over the weekend, super spreader events and with 15 days until election days, things sounded like four years ago. With crowds chanting lock him up, whenever the president started to attack joe biden and his family. Joe biden is a corrupt politician and he has been for a long time. Its a corrupt family and these people didnt ask him one single question about it. Lock him up so true. Lock him up ill tell you something lock him up. Lock up the bidens. Lock up hillary. Lock him up lock him up. Lock him up lock him up lock him up lock him up lock him up lock him up all right. Then there was lock her up chants in michigan as trump railed against democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer over lockdown measures. Just days after the fbi revealed a militia plot to kidnap and try her for treason over covid19 lockdown measures. What youre doing in michigan has been amazing. Now, youve got to get your governor to open up your state, okay . [ cheers and applause ] and get your schools open. Get your schools opened. The schools have to be open, right . Lock her up lock her up lock them all up. And then i guess they said she was threatened. Right . Shes she was threatened. And she blamed me. She blamed me and our people were the ones that worked with her people. So lets see what happens. Lets see what happens but i have to tell you something. Our fbi has to start looking antifa and they have to start looking at some people that theyre look not looking at. Jonathan lemire, it makes no sense. Of course, it doesnt make any sense because we have a brain and were logical. It makes no sense that donald trump would lead chants of lock them up, lock her up, lock them up, in a state talking about whitmer, lock them all up as he said, who just survived a plot against her where the fbi broke up, what, 14 people that were going to kidnap her. Were going to move her to a secure location in wisconsin and then try her with the implication of course that shed be executed. We of course have seen the shocking videotape and donald trump saying i suppose they say no, it was his own fbi that said that there was a plot to kidnap a governor of the United States and inspired by his liberate quotes. So he did that in michigan which ive got to believe since shes popular is going to hurt donald trump there and because i think michigan people are decent people. I dont think they would actually support that. Then you go to wisconsin where hes campaigning in wisconsin and has a super spreader event and acts as if that state is not a hot spot. Jonathan, we saw the polls that showed an extraordinarily close race in two states and of course yougov thats been yougov has always had a much closer race than the other polls we have and we believe the race is going to be very close in the states. Nobody knows who is going to win, but im just curious what youre hearing on the ground, what are you hearing from trump people, what are you hearing from biden people about donald trump still doing things that would have destroyed any other political candidate other than him in any election, in any place in america, in any other time than right now . Lets start again by underscoring the reckless rhetoric there in michigan against a governor who was fortunate not to fall victim to a very dangerous kidnapping plot and yes, as we know, the president has been gathering thousands of people in states across the country, very few masks, no social distancing at the Campaign Rallies and no state a greater hot spot than wisconsin. Both campaigns acknowledged this race is close, theres a sense that yes, joe biden is winning because hes up more of the Battle Ground states and what biden has done is to push into states that trump won handily, iowa, georgia, where he has to play some defense with only two weeks to go, thats a strain on his time and resources. Theres also some frustration among trump aides and republicans aides, theyre acknowledging the path to victory is narrow and there are blame games beginning why are we that way. Particularly Brad Parscale squandered money early on in the campaign and a sense of the frustration and i wrote about this for the Associated Press, the president cant move past 2016 and the clips show that. That hes someone who is talking to the smaller and smaller portion of the electorate. The lock him up chants, trying to use stolen emails much like he did in 2016 for his political benefit. This time with hunter biden, trying to weaponize those very dubious matters. Of trying to magnify rather small characters in the 2016 mueller probe. He spent the other night in iowa going on about bruce ohr long forgotten for the most part, department of justice aide that someone outside of the extreme right nows who he is. Every moment he does that is a moment trying to hammer home what is supposed to be his Closing Argument, about the economy, saying he built it once, he can do it again. Pointing to the gallup poll that said 56 of americans feel theyre better off now than four years ago, despite the pandemic. Aides are trying to get him to focus. Four years ago, in the closing stretch of the campaign, he managed for him to show some discipline, but so far hes not able to now. And they recognize their map is shrinking. Yes, he was in the upper midwest and theyre uphill climbs. The Trump Campaign feel like their best and only path forward is to try to win the sun belt states, florida, arizona, hang on to georgia, all of those states are close and then put all of the emphasis on pennsylvania. Thinking that could be the state though hes down in the polls that could push him over the top. So reverend al, with everything that Jonathan Lemire has just put out there on the table i also think donald trump could be doing a lot worse. Look at four years ago and more democrats where Hillary Clinton was. This landslide for joe biden, appears he has a long way to go or we could have a repeat of 2016. What is frightening is not only is it not a land slide in terms of the polling for joe biden, given what donald trump has done, i mean, we are talking about a president that went in a state ten days after the fbi uncovered not people talking about kidnapping the governor and putting some kind of explosives at the state capitol, but actually were doing drills, going through procedures that they videotaped doing. And the president mocks her and leads a crowd in a chant of lock her up, lock her up for protecting us against the coronavirus and this president is still within a range of winning the presidency, even though its a tight path. Theres still a path. I think it is frightening and were not seeing a landslide guaranteed for joe biden given the behavior of this president even over this past weekend. Well, kasie hunt, you read the Washington Post this morning, and you look at the facts and the real clear politics average at this. 4 years ago, Hillary Clinton was up by 12 points in wisconsin. In michigan, up five points in let me get that right. She was up 12 points in michigan, and up seven points in wisconsin and pennsylvania. Those are numbers actually that joe biden would love to have right now. We just saw the yougov poll that showed wisconsin was actually a fivepoint race. So you get the sense talking to the Biden Campaign, you get the sense talking to democrats, you get the sense talking to everybody that this race with two weeks to go is far from over. I think thats absolutely right, joe. And i think youre seeing some signs that particularly there may be enthusiasm on the rise among President Trumps voters. Certainly he has returned to hitting some of those old stand byes in the way hes presenting the realities lately. This is true in the emails theyre sending, the ads theyre running on the air, theyre going after joe biden as somebody who would raise your taxes which is a classic republican argument. Im not sure if its going to work or not. But that is something that were seeing more of here in the closing days. And i think everyone is you know, doesnt want to make the same mistake they made in 2016. The Biden Campaign probably most of all and youre seeing them be very diligent in terms of trying to tell their supporters, hey, dont coast here. This is not something thats a given. Now, this doesnt mean that we couldnt see an extraordinarily blue map on Election Night. All of the polls are incredibly close and if they break the same way because of the president s overall Approval Rating, then we could be using the word landslide on Election Night. But theyre so close that you simply cannot make that assumption. You know, the polling if youre going to look at what we saw in 2016, the polling wasnt as wrong necessarily as people said that it was. I mean, we were inside margins of error, and there were warning signs for people who read polls, but i think that sense of complacency is something that democrats want to really avoid. You know, Jonathan Lemire, its interesting if you talk to the Biden Campaign, if you talk to democrats, they do not even go there. That they have a chance of winning this thing. They are a lot of people in that campaign ran the Hillary Campaign and they are running scared. Yet, in conversations with the Trump Campaign, there actually is a bit more of a sense of foreboding, is there not, that they do see this they think the president can still win, but they see this slipping away. Both of those things are right. First on the biden camp he had one of the senior aides take to twitter and put out pretty extraordinary call to supporters saying, hey, this isnt over. This race is closer than polls suggest. And theres been the case both camps have thought all along. Some of the National Polls in particular and some of the Battle Grounds are too are showing a bigger margin than exists in reality. Look, the Trump Campaign is blustery and theyre trying to seize upon the suspect stories that appeared in the New York Post last week as the thing that can change the conversation. Theyre looking to the thursday night debate which is one of perhaps the last big set pieces as a moment they can also help, though they think the president needs to have a wildly different performance than he did two weeks ago. But as they assess the map there are few things they have to look at. First of all, theyre well down in money. Joe bidens campaign has significantly other, over 150 million more to spend between now and election day and has more ad time reserved across the map thats a problem for the Trump Campaign. They are seeing the margins in states unchanged. Still down, you know, at a place like wisconsin or michigan, not by one or two, but four, five or six. Even if thats less than what the public poll says, thats a healthy margin and theyre simply running out of time. Millions of votes have already been cast early. Those votes, theyre concerned it looks like, according to party registration, are breaking democrats. What theyre banking on here theyre seeing crowds, big crowds, 2016 style crowds for the president in the last week or two since he returned to the campaign trail after the pandemic and theyre banking on a huge election day turnout. Thats their path to perhaps make it so close and sow chaos and confusion on Election Night as to who is actually ahead. In his wisconsin rally, the president also attacked the democratic governor of that state for not reopening, even as covid cases there are surging. On friday, the Wisconsin Department of health tweeted more records we did not want to break, 3,861 confirmed wisconsin cases reported since yesterday. And for the first time, the sevenday average of new, confirmed cases tops 3,000. Lets Work Together to protect everyone in wisconsin and stop the spread. And yet, this was the scene. The next day. At the president s campaign rally. No social distancing. Only about a third of his supporters Wearing Masks. The people who attended also had to park two miles away from the airport and take shuttle buses to the event. The state Health Department released a statement saying it discourages gatherings of any kind, but urged those who do gather to wear masks and maintain physical distancing. Lets bring in an associate professor of disease, from the university of wisconsin. Doctor, thanks so much for joining us. The event that we just showed was thousands of people outside, some Wearing Masks but they were close together. Involved a lot of clapping and chanting. Is that a safety risk . You know, i think from the standpoint of covid prevention, the measures that work to reduce transmission, if everyone wears a mask, if everyone maintains a six foot distance and if those things are not compromised i think theres a higher risk of transmission. So where do if wisconsin right now is in the middle of the word they use is surge, what would the i guess what would the guidelines be in order to bring the numbers down . What could wisconsin do to bring the numbers down . You know, wisconsin has done a good job up until this time and this is first time we have grappled with the full extent of the pandemic. Seven months into it, people are fatigued. Thai tried to do social distancing, they have done masking to some extent. But this is not the time to let up on those measures. In fact, this is the time to really rededicate ourselves and to be very faithful to masking, to physical distancing, to limiting nonessential activities because as people go, so does the virus. So i know wisconsin has set up in one part of the state, i think the correct word is Field Hospital but extra space due to the coronavirus. Hospitalizations are a key issue in counting how well or how bad a state or a country is doing as it pertains to the coronavirus. How is wisconsin doing and what do we know about potential for more Field Hospitals to be set up . Well, from the standpoint of how wisconsin is doing, i think its safe to say were not doing well. Hospitalizations are lagging indicator of how things are going. You will often see the virus defuse in the population and cause a lot of cases and then they need medical care when they contract covid19. So thats exactly what were seeing now. More Health Systems in the state are teetering on the brink of being overwhelmed and i think the Field Hospital being set is up a welcome step in that direction, but it cannot solve the problem in its entirety because theres a limited number of beds. Even though you can, you know, conjure up beds from thin air sometimes if you have to, what you cant do is bring up a fully Trained Health care worker out of thin air. As we see infections in the community, we see infections in the Health Care Workers and this compromises the critical workforce as well. All right. Vice chair for research for the department of medicine at the university of wisconsin, doctor, thank you so much. And still ahead on morning joe, is russia using Rudy Giuliani as a conduit for disinformation against joe biden . And what does the white house know . Well discuss the federal investigation now under way. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Ure watchi well be right back. Stock slices. 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Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Be there for you, and them. Ask your gastroenterologist about humira. With humira, remission is possible. Smooth driving pays off with allstate, the safer you drive the more you save you never been in better hands allstate click or call for a quote today he pitches, a magic one tonight. And to teen right field and Cody Bellinger has done it. The dodgers win game 7. Pretty incredible game and some wow, some great games this weekend. I mean, you can officially say that baseball is back. Baseball is back because, again, we had a National League and an American League championship series go seven games and, Jonathan Lemire, as john kennedy once said, all free men, wherever they may live, are citizens of tampa. And while we are looking at the dodgers beating the atlanta braves, of course, all the world we had ticker tape parades going on all across the world. A lot of fireworks. It was almost a seen out of the end of armageddon after bruce willis saved the world from the oncoming meteor, that the Tampa Bay Rays defeated the Houston Astros. We are all rays nation this morning, joe, as the Tampa Bay Rays americas team, defeated the axis of evil, the new york yankees and the Houston Astros and all mankind owes them a debt of gratitude. They now do face a very good and likable team against the los angeles dodgers. Two terrific sevengame series and the dodgers are helmed by dave roberts, we like him. Were happy about that. Yeah. Do you know whos playing right field for the dodgers these days . And made a couple of spectacular catches the last couple of nights. Mookie betts who used to play for a different team. I think he i think he used look at this catch. That looks vaguely familiar. Oh, wait, he did that all the time for the boston red sox. Now, jonathan, im not really good, im just a poor country lawyer, so im not really good with baseball rules but was there a rule against the red sox keeping mookie betts because he was so good that we had to share him with other teams . No, ill check the fine print but i dont think so. I dont think theres a rule, when you have a player like mookie betts whos probably the second best player in baseball behind only mike trout and there are days mookie betts can do things that mike trout can do. That you dont have to let him go. In fact, offer him a fair contract so he can stay and spend his whole career in boston and so lets say a 5yearold who might be my son whose favorite player is mookie betts didnt have to ask for me to buy me a mookie betts dodgers jersey that he wore yesterday to watch the game. Okay. Exactly. All right. Ive got to say, really quickly, it is shocking that the red sox could have kept mookie and they let him go. I dont know, i dont understand that. But i do know that historians will say how american capitalism defeated the nazi and defeated the soviet union, but my gosh, are they not going to be saying the same thing about the rays who beat both the yankees and the astros, jonathan . That is quite a onetwo punch. The events of october 2020 will be ones that we will be telling our grand kids about, that they will sing songs about. That the historians will start chapters of the greatest annals of history about, thank you, Tampa Bay Rays. Okay. Good break, guys. Lets go back to the news now. The New York Post report who penned most of the front page story on Hunter Bidens emails refused to attach his byline to the work. What . Because he was unsure of the storys credibility. So wait, so the guy who wrote the story knew the story was so phony that he wouldnt put it on his own story . Correct. The times reports that two post employees speaking on the condition of anonymity for fear of retaliation, fear of being fired, say longtime post reporter Bruce Golding wrote the hunter biden story, but did not want his name on. Because he knew it was a lie. Other contributors to the piece also reportedly declined a byline. The story which suggested that former Vice President biden used the office to enrich his son was ultimately published with Emma Joe Morris and gabrielle as the authors. Though miss morris has no previous byline for the paper. You show up at the New York Post and you too can get a front page story if you attach your name to the story that is not trued. So the post based it on photos and documents it had taken from the hard drive of a laptop reportedly belonging to hunter biden. Many questioned if the paper had done enough to verify the authenticity of the hard drives, says the post. According to the post, gabrielle learned her byline was on the story only after it was published. Jonathan lemire, you worked in new york tabloids that happens all the time that people who write stories dont get their names on stories and dont know about it until after theyre published. How bizarre is this for whether its the New York Times or the daily news or any paper. Extremely bizarre, youre right. I can tell you, i never got my name on a front page story that i didnt bring and certainly this raises all sorts of questions about the validity, about the story, the process of how it came to be and certainly it has been cast a lot of doubt has been cast upon it by the Biden Campaign and most Mainstream Media outlets are viewing this with a critical eye. What we know, what we dont know, and examining the questions as to how this information was obtained including how the fbi is now investigating whether or not Rudy Giuliani the president s personal attorney who was the conduit for the story, but his own admission, he when to the New York Post for with this story, whether giuliani was fed disinformation by the russians. Theres a probe into that now. So that reporting comes as a source tells nbc news that the cia and other spy agencies gathered intelligence on President Trumps lawyer. Rudy giuliani, and his dealings with russian agents last year, and passed that information on to the white house. The source added that the agencies were not spying on giuliani himself, but instead looking at individuals he was speaking with such as Andrii Derkach, identified as a russian agent. Giuliani according to the source repeatedly met with derkach last year when giuliani was trying to obtain information on joe biden and his son hunter. Federal investigators are also looking into whether emails allegedly describing the activities of joe biden and his son found in a Computer Repair shop are linked to a foreign intelligence operation, two people familiar with the matter told nbc news. Those emails allegedly touch on Hunter Bidens activities in ukraine and china and were published by the New York Post last week and they received it from steve bannon and Rudy Giuliani. Steve bannon, who could go wrong . The New York Post put out a story with an email which is not confirmed to be authentic and suggested a meeting between joe biden and a representative from the Ukrainian Company that had once paid hunter. Wait, where are we spreading the lies here . Because biden said no evidence. The Campaign Said theres no evidence of meeting the meeting ever took place and the New York Post never asked the campaign about the critical elements of the story and a former official who talked to the Washington Post, the intelligence raised concerns that giuliani here we are in 2020. This is what its come down to, america. Giuliani is feeding russian misinformation to donald trump and feeding russian disinformation to the New York Post and it is so obviously disinformation that the person who writes the story wont put their name on it because they know its a lie. Yeah. Well thats where we are in 2020. Just to let you know. Theyre still talking, the russians and by the way, russian hoax, come on. History will expose you all as fools and useful idiots for the russians. Its for four years now, for four years now, there has been a line from russian agents in to the campaign. Its unbelievable how stupid you think americans are. How stupid you think americans are for you can say, russian hoax. Seriously . The idiocy, the sheer idiocy. You are revealed right now, but you will be revealed throughout history for basically running cover for russians and an exkgb agent who said the greatest tragedy of the 20th century was the collapse of the soviet union, a regime that, yes, killed 40 million of its own people. Okay. Joining us news its a good site to be to be on, by the way. At the cia and department of justice and now a National Security analyst jeremy bash and dave aronberg. Thanks, guys, for being on. Jeremy bash, where do we begin with this New York Post story and also Rudy Giuliani who is holding his own super spreader events and he seems to spew out disinformation and no one holds him accountable. I guess because hes in nowheres land in term what does he do for the white house exactly and how is he held accountable in terms of what is happening here . Well, mika, one thing to state right at the top, Rudy Giuliani was not fed passively russian disinformation. He ordered it off the menu. He demanded it be brought to him. Why do i say that, mika . Because in july of 2019, when in the famous phone call between donald trump and president zelensky of ukraine, a big part of the conversation that trump said to the ukrainians, im sending rudy, you have to talk to rudy. Rudy giuliani goes to kiev, he mets with Andrii Derkach, a known russian intelligence asset. To do what . Giuliani admitted to get quote unquote dirt on joe biden. Then of course in august of this year, august of 2020, the office of the director of National Intelligence t key counterintelligence lead puts out a statement that Andrii Derkach is trying to interfere in the 2020 election to denigrate joe biden and the own Treasury Department puts out a statement saying that derkach is an intelligence operative. Along comes Rudy Giuliani, oh, i have the disinformation and derkach made a statement this week that says theres more where that came from. So this looks like russian intelligence. This walks like russian intelligence and sounds like russian intelligence. Everyone im talking says this is a russian disinformation campaign. Kasie hunt, you can take the next question, but if Rudy Giuliani wanted to meet with Top Republican senators and maybe do something jointly, would they . Well, so thats exactly the very question that i have for jeremy which is about i mean, republican senators on the hill led by ron johnson have been investigating these ties in some cases over the objection of mitt romney who has questioned why theyre doing this in the first place, is it just political. But the question im trying to answer, why did not not come up in the context of the investigation . Did they not know about it because it came on later in the campaign and find out and know it was discredited in this way that you have just outline . I know you have worked on all sides of this, the administration and the hill side. How do you think these things are interacting politically . Well, heres my sense, kasie. The Senate Investigation yielded absolutely nothing. I mean, it was a total nothing burger, so donald trump obviously erupted in fury and said to Rudy Giuliani, go get me more, and mysterious Rudy Giuliani and steve bannon and the mysterious person who was on bannons yacht after he was arrested an hes under federal prosecution by the federal government, when trump said, get me more he turned to giuliani and bannon, get me whatever we have. It wasnt surfaced by the senate because it was a nothing burger. So dave, aronberg, youre a sitting prosecutor. What red flags are raised for you when Rudy Giuliani aggressively goes after russian disinformation and distributes along with steve bannon distributes russian disinformation to the New York Post who prints it . Joe, the players involved are themselves red flags. Youve got Rudy Giuliani whos allegedly under federal investigation for disseminating russian disinformation. You have steve bannon who is awaiting trial on federal fraud charges while hes putting this stuff out. And youve got this Computer Repair shop owner in delaware who is a staunch trump supporter and who peddles in conspiracy theories and his shop is hundreds of miles away from where hunter biden lives. This whole thing smells bad, joe. Theres not a lot of credence and thats why the fbi is not questioning the bidens but Rudy Giuliani. I think the lesson here is if youre going to plan an october surprise, you may want to choose a planner who is not parading around the world with a known russian secret agent for the last year. Maybe choose a planner that had better peer reviews next time. Yeah. Reverend al, its not like the Treasury Department didnt call this guy a russian agent. So this is not some left wing, this isnt the nation the mother jones accusing him of being a russian agent. This is mnuchins own department saying this guy is a russian agent and this is giuliani coordinating with him. Giuliani is dealing with them and you have to ask yourself as they look through at this federal investigation on giuliani, are they also going to look at who decided at the tabloid, the New York Post said dont put my name to it, it may not be true. Do they look at how 2 1 2 weeks before an election someone decided to use a tabloid to in all probability know that they were smearing a major candidate against a president that this tabloid was supporting. And whether or not that was fall under criminal investigation leading to some kind of criminal charges. All right. Jeremy bash and dave aronberg, thank you both for being on for this conversation this morning. Coming up, the Washington Post robert costa has the new reporting that just crossed entitled trumps den of dissent. Inside the White House Task force as coronavirus surges. Everyone remembers the moment they heard. You have cancer. How their world stopped and when they found a way to face it. For some, this is where their keytruda story begins. Keytruda a breakthrough immunotherapy that may treat certain cancers. One of those cancers is advanced nonsquamous, nonsmall cell lung cancer where keytruda is approved to be used with certain chemotherapies as your first treatment if you do not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. Keytruda helps your immune system fight cancer, but can also cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body. This can happen during or after treatment and may be severe and lead to death. See your doctor right away if you have new or worse cough, chest pain, shortness of breath, diarrhea, severe stomach pain or tenderness, nausea or vomiting, rapid heartbeat, increased hunger or thirst, constipation, dizziness or fainting, changes in urine or eyesight, muscle pain or weakness, joint pain, confusion or memory problems, fever, rash, itching, or flushing. These are not all the possible side effects. 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But the most insidious thing that Chuck Schumer and joe biden and elizabeth and kamala and kamala mama i dont know. He served with her for four years. That was painfully obvious. I dont know what youre try doing there, senator. But its not working. Responded in a statement on friday, reading senator perdue simply mispronounced senator harris name five or six times . Against the radical socialist agenda and she is pulling. Which includes the green new deal, medicare for all blah blah blah. Anyway, senator perdues democratic challenger johns ofoff said we are so much more better than this and his campaign raised 2 million, thanks to perdues, well, really grotesque moment. Lets bring in the former treasury official, steve rattner. Campaign fund raising totals for the Third Quarter, theyre preseason massive. I never in 25 years of being involved in Democratic Politics has seen fundraising numbers like that and they did it without people like david perdue mocking or making money of Kamala Harris. But lets look first at the other some of the other Key Senate Races and really extraordinary amounts of money being raised there. Wow. So South Carolina where we know Jaime Harrison is taking on Lindsey Graham he raised almost 58 million in the Third Quarter. That is the most ever raised by a Senate Candidate ever. And it was almost exactly double what Lindsey Graham has. You can go to maine where sarah gideon raised almost 40 million in the state of maine versus 8. 3 million for susan collins. You go to arizona where mark kelly the former astronaut and the husband of gabby giffords, the former congress woman, raised 38 million, more than mcsally who has been clinging to trumps coattails if there are any coattails. In iowa teresa greenfield, raised 28. 8 million versus just 7. 2 million for joni ernst. North carolina, cal cunningham, versus thom tillis four the incumbent and Steve Bullock didnt raise that much money, i think probably raised a good bit more with 27 million in just the Third Quarter in the state of montana against the incumbent steve daines which is going to be a close contest. So money is not everything, its still an uphill battle for a couple of the candidates, but the numbers are really quite extraordinary. We can turn now whats driving the numbers . Whats driving those numbers, joe, is energy and determination and commitment to winning from democrats like i have never seen before. This is not big money, by the way. These contributions are limited to 28 a person. If you look at act blue which processes the online donations t average donations are small. Theyre like 50 or Something Like that. And so this is simply an outpouring of commitment to win this election. So turning to biden, you can see now on the screen whats going on on the president ial level. Its a similar picture. Biden and trump were kind of running neck and neck until the last two months. But you have the selection of Kamala Harris, you had the democratic convention, you had that disastrous debate for trump, you had the death of rbg and look whats happened. In the month of september, biden raised 383 million. Trump raised only 248 million. And not surprisingly that has left them with a significant difference in the amount of cash on hand, as well as the amount that they can spend. You may have seen on the front page of the New York Times yesterday a story about all of the advertising cutbacks that trump has made. Hes essentially moved out of the upper midwest and so it is going to be a very different picture for donald trump in these closing moments of the president ial campaign than what he expected. All right. Its the top of the hour now and the a. P. s Jonathan Lemire is still with us. Joining the conversation, we have editor at large for nonprofit newsroom the 19th and an msnbc contributor errin haines. Cohost of show times the circus and of the recount, John Heilemann and political reporter for the Washington Post and msnbc political analyst robert costa. Hes the moderator of Washington Week on pbs. So John Heilemann, lets go through a couple of things really quickly off the top and get your feel for the state of the race. A couple of cbs yougov polls came out yesterday. They were both fairly close, but yougov the yougov polls have been closer than the other polls. Most of the other polls throughout this entire process. This isnt a great difference. You have in arizona joe biden at 50 , donald trump at 47 . And then you go to wisconsin, and while a lot of other polls have been showing 10, 11, 12 point leads in wisconsin, cbs news yougov has kept it a little tighter. You see here joe biden at 51 and trump up 46 . Again, in both the wisconsin race as well as arizona race, virtually unchanged in terms of the margin. So you have biden stubbornly four, five, six points ahead in wisconsin which we have heard from both camps for the past couple of months. Its caused a sense of growing frustration among the trump team. And of course, the biden team extraordinarily paranoid because Hillary Clinton workers are still helping biden out here. But you look at the lead in the Washington Post this morning. And it talks about how Hillary Clinton was up 12 points in michigan. Seven points in wisconsin. And seven points in pennsylvania at this same stage four years ago. Should the biden team be frightened that the same thing that happened four years ago is going to repeat itself in two weeks and one day . Good morning, joe. I think it would be a good idea for the Biden Campaign and i think its one of the strengths of that campaign has been that they have been running scared throughout and i think continuing to run scared all the way through the tape is the right approach at this point. I think, you know, there are a lot of things that are different about 2020 than 2016 and what you have seen, you know, one of the key elements here is like in 2016, theres a lot of noise at all of the polling but you had essentially a fiveperson race in 2016 where donald trump could win a lot of these states by being in the mid in the mid 40s, right, because you had a green party candidate, you had gary johnson, you had 50 was not in anybodys win number. In this race when there are no Real Third Party candidates, someone is going to get 50 to pin in the states. I think what gives the Biden Campaign a lot of confidence even though there again theres some noise in the polling, but the stability of bidens lead in most of these Battle Ground states, particularly those upper midwest states, michigan, wisconsin, and more recently pennsylvania having kind of been the state that seemed out of that seemed to be the kind of the outlier among those three, among the three Battle Ground states in the midwest, great lakes, that one has come into consistency with the other two, biden, the consistency of his lead and in so many of the states him being up at 49, 50, donald trump being in all of even the ones with narrower margins have trump in the mid 40s and what is that . Thats Donald Trumps Approval Rating, within his Approval Rating for the last four years and this is why underlying confidence on the democratic side which is the thing we know about incumbent reelections, on election day, the president usually gets what his Approval Rating is. And donald trump a guy whos dwelled between 42 and 45 for four straight years, you look at the Battle Ground states and you see the same thing. Between 42 and 45 . The likelihood on the National Level and in a lot of the Battle Ground states hell end up at 42 and 45 , in a twoperson race thats not enough. But of course, of course, like every democrat in the country who suffers from ptsd from 2016, of course theyre frightened and its the right thing for them strategically and tactically to be running like they are terrified. Bob costa, what concerns many people on the trump team right now is joe bidens numbers have actually cracked 50 in a lot of the states and in a lot of states hes at 51 , 52 and they remember Hillary Clinton being at 45 , 46 , with a lot of undecided voters out there. What were seeing across the country is the senior vote starting to turn from its traditional republican roots toward becoming more of a biden republican vote. And what explains that is the pandemic. And i encourage you to read the story we just posted, deep dive, we worked on it for weeks on the Washington Post website about why the white house is managing the pandemic as it is. You have scott atlas there, joe, this doctor from the Hoover Institute in california, whispering in President Trumps ear and theres a climate, a culture inside of the west wing toward herd immunity, toward the idea of moving on from the virus. This is the same doctor, scott atlas, who tweeted over the weekend about masks not being effective and this is getting baked in to the polls and how seniors and other voters are interpreting this president s leadership and his response to the pandemic. And bob, does that explain whats happening in florida, why the president who is expected to win easily by two, three, four, even five Percentage Points six months ago, why the president is having such a difficult time not only in states like wisconsin and pennsylvania and michigan, but also in arizona and florida, two sunbelt states that he thought were going to be comfortably in his camp. Months ago, a white house official told me their real rival is not Vice President biden, its the virus. When you wonder why the democrats are starting to tick up in florida, in georgia, in arizona, across these states that you have never really been in democratic terrain for years, its because of the pandemic. And you look at the president s response to it. And as summer turns into fall and many of these states are now dealing with rising numbers of cases you see a real crisis starting to emerge. As much as President Trump is back on the road and has his own message, his own spin, the reality and facts of this Global Pandemic continue to confront him regardless. Yeah. You know, your point is backed up by the fact that i see folks who appear on tv for trump, just flouting the virus, mocking it, like its not a story. Like it doesnt exist. It appears they are competing against not joe biden and his record, and who he is as a person, but this coronavirus and its reality. And seniors see that. Yeah, they see that because their life is in taker. When they say embrace herd immunity, what theyre saying is hundreds of thousands of Senior Citizens can day and theyre good with it as long as people go to school and get back to work. The talk of herd immunity that scott atlas and the president is pushing right now, it puts a target on the back of hundreds of thousands of Senior Citizens. You know else who sees that, is women responsible for their family and they cant send their children to school because they have weak lungs or asthma, all of those conditions prevalent across the United States. The president and the minions would not look at the number and take it seriously and understand that number is going up because theyre not doing anything about it. Here is part of dr. Anthony faucis 60 minutes appearance on why he wasnt surprised by President Trumps recent covid19 diagnosis. Were you surprised that President Trump got sick . Absolutely not. I was worried that he was going to get sick when i saw him in a completely precarious situation of crowded, no separation between people and almost nobody wearing a mask. When i saw that on tv, i said oh, my goodness. Nothing good can come out of that. Thats got to be a problem and then sure enough, it turned out to be a super spreader event. After three days in the hospital with covid19, President Trump returned to the white house and started to hold political rallies. Yeah. Thats so painful. Errin haines, so, you know, i say that women see through it, talk to people who have voted for trump who now wont for this reason. Its anecdotal but what are you seeing in terms of voters feelings about the virus versus the white house and Trump Supporters pushing back against it as bob costa laid out. Well, good morning. Mika, a lot of the women i talked to sound like dr. Fauci. They were not surprised and they were irritated if not plain out infuriated with the president s Coronavirus Diagnosis and knowing the sacrifices they have made for them and their families, masking, working from home and balancing that with the Impossible Task of Virtual Learning for the parents. Women, front line workers who have been putting themselves in harms way to provide services for us that we have come to really appreciate in this pandemic. The pandemic is absolutely political for women. You talked about the polls here earlier. Just as the path to the primary went through black voters to make joe biden the nominee t path is going to go through women and women are going to be the deciders of this election. The poll numbers to watch, to see if they remain consistent, will be in the gender gap. That number continues to be huge in favor of joe biden and part of the reason is because of the women who are living through the reality of this pandemic every day and who are the majority, not only of the electorate and who are responding and impacted by the coronavirus particularly from an economic standpoint. We have got a lot of reporting up on the 19th news about the economic impact, about women who are concerned about health care and dont feel like theyre hearing enough about that. On the campaign trail. These are issues that are driving women not only to the polls in droves, but also, you know, to volunteer and organize and mobilize in droves. Over the weekend there were a couple of actions, taking to the streets but also phone banking and texting, writing postcards and really trying to get out the vote, particularly for women in the homestretch. So, joe, listening to errin haines analysis, the president has been holding the super spreader events for what a week now, every day. Every day, somewhere different. Sanford, florida, wisconsin. So lets see, hmm, its two weeks until the election. I mean, does there are numbers that know that after these events, the coronavirus cases go up in those areas. And you can trace this back to tulsa. So it just seems unbelievably selfdestructive because as he goes around the country spreading his message hes going around the country spreading the virus just in time for it to crop up on election day. If you do the math. John heilemann, i want to show the images out of the rally we were just showing. I want to show the images out of that rally because it does two things. Donald trump has been doing consistently since his american carnage speech. It energizes his 40 base, yay, look, look american flags, people crowded together, hes so tough. It pisses off 60 of americans. It enrages Senior Citizens saying why is he doing this . Why is he putting my life at risk . It upsets women and upsets those in the suburbs who want the president to follow doctors advise, to follow medicine. It offends all of the groups he has been consistently offending over the past four years. Its for the life of me i will never understand like his staff, why the guy couldnt make a turn and stop making light of an assassination attempt or at least a kidnapping attempt against a michigan governor. And to stop mocking a virus thats killed 220,000 americans. He just cant do it. And doesnt that just boil down his support all the more . Yes, joe, look, there are a there are a number of things to say there. His behavior around Governor Whitmer is classic trump. I want to segregate that out for a second because its so repulsive and disgusting and appalling that the guy who incited the militia members, who said liberate michigan, who sent the signal to the militias in michigan, when Governor Whitmer was trying to keep her state safe and then indirectly, indirectly but clearly with the match in that state that led to a kidnapping plot that was not just a kidnapping plot, but taking her off into the woods of wisconsin and having an al qaeda style show trial which was going to end in her death, so it was a kidnapping and eventually a murder plot. The fact that the president makes light of that, given his role in it, is a disgusting form of trumpian narcissism. But theres a larger question youre pointing to. We know that this race ill say it again, if this race is a referendum on donald trump, if we look at four years in office, we have seen time and time again, the Republican Party has been beaten senseless in special elections, every election. The country has been trying by proxy to vote donald trump out of office for four years. If this race was going to be about donald trump, he was going to lose. Then you layer on the pandemic which trumps Approval Ratings have been stuck in the mid 30s for the last seven or eight months, that exasperates the problems and he holds the rallies and makes vivid his disregard for human life, for the virus. The bob costa talked about the senior element, but its seniors, College Educated voters and women. All collapsing around donald trump and making it very difficult for him to win and ill say the last thing here, there is incredible we are going to read for the next year and probably for the next ten years about the sabermetric analysis going on out there that shows this incredible correlation, state by state, in some cases county by county and Congressional District by Congressional District that when coronavirus cases go up, the president s poll numbers go down. I think, you know, right now as this pandemic surges in wisconsin, iowa, michigan, pennsylvania, ohio, all the big Battle Ground states across the midwest its a devastating political thing for the worst thing for him to happen politically on fire in the state and then you add in his behavior. Its crippling, crippling dynamic that i think hes facing not only a defeat but a pretty devastating one. Jonathan lemire to add to the equation that heilemann just brought up as coronavirus cases go up, the president s poll numbers go down, well, as the president holds super spreader events around the country coronavirus cases go up. You wanted to jump in. Thats right. Mika, we have seen since the president s release from the hospital his rhetoric on the pandemic and the virus itself has not changed not at all. In fact, they have doubled down on sort of downplaying it, suggesting it can be beaten with medicine and that America Needs to move forward. That they were having the rallies in part to make the president feel good. So much of the theory of the case of the campaign is electrifying their base. Theyre trying to excite their 40 , 42 to get them to turn out at a massive rate, recognizing that there are more americans who disapprove of the president than approve, but they feel like that their base will come out at a higher rate than those who wont but the long lines at the polling places tell a different story. Bob costa, i wanted to get you on that, the idea that were seeing growing alarm about the white house and the senate and i was struck by what senator cornyn said the other day which is the most blatant move to distance himself from the president saying he couldnt change the president s behavior. That he disapproved of a lot of what donald trump has done. What are you hearing . You cover this so closely, what are you hearing about the republicans in the senate and fearing they could lose that chamber of commerce. Its not just a reckoning for the republicans, for the past five years its really a reckoning for the past ten years. Going back to when i covered the Tea Party Movement and so many in the senate and the house would pull me aside and say, we dont really understand our own voters so were going to just kind of nod and go along and hope that they sweep us in to power like they did in 2010, like they did in 2014 and 2016 and thats the way well just navigate the currents in the Republican Party. Very few of them wanted to speak up when voters some of them talked about president obamas love of country, the birther movement. Very few wanted to speak up when candidate trump went after muslims in this country and muslim majority nations as president. All of them thought this was the key to staying in power, staying muted, going along to get along because they didnt understand their own voters. Now it is october of 2020, a decade in the making. And theyre starting to creep out into the sun and say, well, i didnt agree with this all along thats what senator cornyn at least said, but reporters they know they have for years they have accepted this evolution of the gop. Well, they have accepted it and, well, quite lets be blunt about it. They have been shameless hypocrites, they have been shameless liars. They have lied to their constituents. They promised what what i promised when i ran for office that i was going to fight to balance the budget. I was going to fight to pay down the debt. I was going to fight with members of congress, to bring responsibility to the federal government. And actually to make the federal government do what americans have to do around their table every night and figure out a way to balance their budgets. Thats what these liars said they were going to do in 2010. Thats what these liars said that they would bring to washington, d. C. , when they went in as a tea party savage. Were going to be savages. We talked about like we did in 1994, that we were the barbarians at the gate and we were proud of it and we were going to go and we were going to import pork barrel spending and balance the budget and pay down the debt. Now, theres a big difference between what we did in 1994 and what republicans did in 2001 and again in 2010. What we did was we balanced the budget. For the first time in a generation and in fact, we balanced it four years in a row. Only time thats happened in a century. In 2001, when i left congress, we had 155 billion surplus. Republicans took control, not only of congress, they took control of the white house. By the time george w. Bush left office, we were pushing a trillion dollar deficit and now after the tea party came in in 2010, whats happened since the Tea Party Took control of congress in 2010 . Well, when they took control, you had a deficit around 12 trillion. Theyre at 25 trillion, 26 trillion, even before the pandemic it was 23 trillion. Republicans have been spending like drunken socialists since donald trump got elected president. The biggest deficits ever. The biggest federal debt ever. The biggest most bloated budgets ever. What are republicans going do . I went to congress because im a small Government Conservative and by the way, all you yahoos that come up to me i remember you when you were conservative. Hey, yahoo, hey, yahoo, get your head out of your sand box. Okay. Because when i went to congress, i was for balancing the budget. When i went to congress, i was for responsible budgets. When i went to congress, i was for actually pushing back on russian aggression. When i went to congress, i was for the support of u. S. Democratic allies. When i went to congress, i went to look down, to stare down, actually tyrants and autocrats across the globe. Communists in north korea and of course pushing back on the russians when the russians needed to be pushed back on and pushing back on the chinese when the chinese needed to be pushed back on. It doesnt happen now and now the u. S. Budget deficit has skyrocketed to 3 get this, hold on. Yeah. 3. 1 trillion in one year. Now, when i went to congress, you could look at my Campaign Material and im railing against a 4 trillion national debt. You see it took us 220 years 220 years to pile up a 4 trillion national debt. Donald trump and the republicans in congress who pushed it to 3. 1 trillion deficit in just one year. And, by the way, even before the pandemic, i know you dont want to hear this, because my god, it reveals what a hypocrite you are. What a socialist you are. That you were supporting i told you this. I told you donald trump wasnt a conservative and you didnt listen to me. I told you he was a big spending democrat and you didnt listen to me. And even before the pandemic, donald trump was piling up larger deficits than the United States was accumulating over the first 200 years as a nation. Okay. The biggest spending ever and thats what you have turned your Republican Party in to. So the next time you want to talk about who used to be conservative, put a mirror in front of your face. Steve rattner, you have a couple of charts on this. Joe, i have a couple of charts but you laid it out so clearly and passionately im not sure we need the charts, but lets take a look anyway and see whats been happening to the budget deficit going we can go all the way back to the era of bill clinton and i want to give bill clinton a little bit of a shoutout here as well as your republicans for having produced the surplus all the way over on the left. You see as you described george bush coming in. You had a recession. You had two tax cuts, you had a war, you had incredible spending and the deficit went from surplus to deficit you can then see in the middle of the chart the great financial crisis and the recession that happened after that. I think everybody agreed we had to spend. You can see us you can see under the Obama Administration and the tea party, the deficit working itself back to just in quotation marks about 500 billion and then donald trump arrived and we had a huge tax cut. We had rampant spending. We almost got back to the 1 trillion deficit even during a very successful time in the american economy. And then the bottom fell out and we got to 3. 1 trillion that you mentioned. Nobody at this moment i think very few people anyway believe that we cant spend to fight the virus, but to your point we went into this very unprepared in the sense of already having 1 trillion deficit. Now lets look at the impact on the debt and you can see over on the right that we have passed 100 of debt to gdp in fiscal 20 thats the year that just ended that youre mentioning. And thats almost the same as the peak we got to of 106 during world war ii. So we are about to enter into record territory. You can then see the red and blue lines which represent the committee for responsible federal budgets estimates of both the trump and the biden plans. They essentially get you to the similar place. They both want to incur additional spending to deal with the virus and other priorities. Getting to 127 of gdp by 2030. A level that under before the virus nobody thought wed get to until even over 100 until some time after that. And to one of your earlier points, donald trump is still talking about the fact that hes going to reduce the deficit and how Economic Growth is going to bail us out of the debt mess and so on and so forth. Steve rattner, thank you so much. Robert costa, thank you as well. Let me ask you, robert. Obviously you had the big story on the coronavirus and whats going on inside the white house. What are you looking at this week . Joe, just to build on your points, what im tracking this week is whether the trump era will end to steal from t. S. Eliot is end with not a bang, but a stimulus. The president is edging toward the bill. Will the party cave to President Trump as he scrambles for a jolt to the reelection campaign. Many of them believe its necessary, many in senate do not. Will they get go with trump and jump into the riptide of spending at this late hour . All right. Thank you so much, bob. Joining us now from the Governmental Affairs committee, senator gary peters of michigan. So first of all, lets talk about the campaign, how is it going . Well, its obviously were getting right down to the wire here. We have outside groups so we have republicans pouring money into this race. Clearly michigan is a Battle Ground state for the presidency. Im one of the democrats in the state that donald trump won between Mitch Mcconnell, his super pac and other republican sources, over 20 million is being dumped into my race at the end. I have the devos family, betsy devos family has a super pac pumping in money against me so im being bombarded by negative, false ads trying to a move this race at the very end. But were confident well fight to tend but clearly its a battle right to the end. Yeah. The president obviously the chant of the lock her up for the michigan governor is disturbing. I think that can be universally thought, i hope. Do you think that the president is riling up sort of forces against democrats at this point or is there a diversity in michigan that, you know, has to be straightened out or reckoned with on election day . Theres definitely a diversity in michigan. We are a very diverse state. Some of the folks you have seen engaged in some of these actions are real minority of folks in the state. I think most people remember the scenes from the Capitol Building where you had folks with weapons in the Capitol Building. Our state is a very broad state, but clearly when you have statements made by the president , liberate michigan and you heard the chants when he was in the state here recently about lock her up, thats certainly inciting activity that we dont want to see a happen. Its broader problem and theres a rise of these groups, whether thats white supremacist groups, other groups, this is an incredibly dangerous trend thats happening in our country as more of the groups become emboldened and it certainly goes back to the fact that words do matter and the words we hear from the president are certainly having an impact on and these groups and we need to call it out. When you have a president who is in a debate, a president ial debate who cant condemn white supremacist action thats a threat to the peace of people across our country. John heilemann . Hey, senator, we have in this very short time between now and election day in washington one of the big items thats going to be in front of you all is the pass through it to committee and then to the floor of Amy Coney Barrett for the Supreme Court. You injected yourself in a pretty dramatic way by telling your own family story related to abortion. She obviously is of great concern to lot of democrats who are for maintaining roe v. Wade. This is on a fast track, were likely to see her come out of committee this week and then Mitch Mcconnell rushing this thing to the floor in the closing days before this election. I just want to ask you, laying out all of that about whats about to happen, the stakes here, are you resigned to judge barrett getting on the court or some chance that the democrats can do something this the closing days to prevent her from getting confirmed before election day . Right now, its about the court of public opinion. From her writings she will likely overturn roe v. Wade and that will be a serious blow to reproductive freedom for women across this country. As you mentioned the story that i shared. I think thats a story that so many families, so many people can share, people have to understand the ramifications of this for folks across the country. Although im not overly confident well have any republicans that will vote against her, theyre going to continue to person her through before election day. And thats why it is on the ballot. Folks need to be electing folks right now to the senate and to the congress who understand the importance of reproductive freedom for women, folks who understand health care, the Affordable Care act is clearly on the ballot as well. We also know from her writings that she will likely look to overturn the Affordable Care act. So health care for americans is on the ballot and we need to make sure were electing folks, no matter who they are, they have access to Affordable Care act thats under attack. This new nominee is inclined to overthrow that. And were going to have to step up and make sure we put forward legislation after that happens, that protects people who have preexisting conditions. Folks who have had expanded health care as a result of medicaid expansion. Senior citizens are likely to see their Prescription Drug costs go up. This is all on the ballot and republicans know its on the ballot. Theyre why theyre dumping millions of dollars against me right now. Trying to defeat me in the next two weeks because the Senate Majority is at stake. Its very difficult if not impossible to take the Senate Majority if we lose michigan, they know that. Thats why theyre fighting and thats why well do everything we can to win here in michigan because we must. We must do it to protect people in this country and their health care. Errin haines, you have the next question. Senator peters, yes, thank you for sharing that story. I know that that certainly resonated with a lot of women for you to decide to go public with that. But i want to ask you, going back to the militias and the alleged plot against Governor Whitmer, that was alarming to lot of americans and even with the voter enthusiasm we have been seeing around the country in terms of, you know, the record numbers of folks who are showing up either through mailin balloting or showing up to vote in person with early voting, im wondering how concerned you are with the president calling for folks like militias and others to, you know, join an army of people to protect the vote at the polls. How concerned are you amid voter enthusiasm about Voter Suppression and voter intimidation that may be happening at the polls especially as we get closer to election day in person. Well, we always have to be concerned about that, but ill say right now theres incredible voter enthusiasm. We have to make sure folks are turning it. We are working hard to get people to vote by absentee. Over 1. 4 Million People have voted by absentee, close to 3 million ballots have been requested. But certainly to your point, i think its a very valid point, some of the statements that we have heard from this president are very disturbing. They have the impact of trying to have folks question legitimacy of the election to have a United States president making the kind of statements hes made is simply unconscionable. To have a United States president say that maybe he wont respect the vote and there may be peaceful that is just incredibly dangerous. Its incredibly irresponsible and i hope that what continues out of this it will motivate more folks to turn out and vote. Vote and exercise their constitutional right and make sure hes defeated. Its important not only to beat trump but to beat him with overwhelming numbers. We need this country turning out and saying enough is enough. We need to defeat him and we have to support Democratic Senators that are going to be there to back up a biden presidency. We have to do both. Senator gary peters, thank you very much. We are in touch with the republican challenger, john james. Well see if we can schedule an interview with him before election day. We just talked a bit about voter turnout in michigan. Still ahead, a deeper dive on that issue nationwide. And whether everyone who is trying to cast their vote actually has the ability to do so. Thats still ahead on morning joe. E ning joe. 133 million americans have preexisting conditions such as high Blood Pressure, diabetes, and asthma. This administration and Senate Republicans want to overturn laws requiring Insurance Companies to cover people with preexisting conditions. Theyre rushing a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court to change the law through the courts. 70 of americans want to keep protections for preexisting conditions in place. Tell our leaders in washingtn to stop playing games with our healthcare. I try so hard, i cant rise above it dont know what it is get a dozen double crunch shrimp for one dollar with any steak entree. Only at applebees. Until i found out what itust . It actually was. D me. Dust mite droppings . Ewww. Dead skin cells . Gross so now, i grab my swiffer heavy duty sweeper and dusters. Dusters extends to 6 feet to reach way up high. To grab, trap and lock away gross dust. Nice for dust on my floors, i switch to sweeper. The heavy duty cloths reach deep in grooves to grab, trap and lock dust bunnies. No matter where they hide. No more heebie jeebies. Phhhhew. Glad i stopped cleaning and started swiffering. It was a major election in the middle of a pandemic. Theres been confusion around what chat is allowed. It was difficult to request an absentee ballot. I didnt know how to do it. I didnt know about that option to vote through the absentee balloting. People cheat. Mail ballots are fraudulent in many cases. Absentee ballots delayed in the mail. I requested an absentee ballot. But didnt come in time. So i was forced to go and vote. At one of the five polling stations. Voters forced to choose between their health and their civic duty. So that was a portion of the pbss front line on how the pandemic is affecting voter turnout in the state of wisconsin and across america. Joining us now one of the producers and the narrate over that report, staff writer for the new yorker, jelani cobb. Thank you for being on the show this morning. So, you know, where does what is the problem at this point that voters are confronting as it pertains to the election and how does it differ from the problem that the president is putting out there . There are a raft of problems, some of those problems are preexisting in terms of the electoral dynamics that tend to disadvantage the communities of color in particular. We talked about the things. The voting i. D. Laws, the gerrymandering and et cetera. Win of things about the absentee ballots a study that was going along with the Columbia University journalism Investigations Team found that absentee ballots from communities of color tended to be rejected at a higher rate. And so thats something that we discovered in the course of the film and on the other side of it theres a very nonexistent threat you hear being cited from the president saying that people cheat and there are false ballots. People will be mailing ballots from china, so on. Theres no evidence of that happening. But theres this other problem this problem potential problem on the other side that people have been to be mindful of. Jonathan lemire . I have two questions for you. Obviously, first of all, in wisconsin, during the primary we saw the images of the long voting lines with very few places to cast your ballot. Where does this stand . Are there few places for people to vote . Second, theres been a lot written about in pennsylvania with the socalled naked ballots that people dont fill it out correctly or put it back in the envelope the right way, it wont be counted. Are there other states we should be watching for that perhaps broad problem that may lead to this disenfranchisement for people over an innocent mistake . Sure. So two things. To answer your second question first, theres a wide array of different policies as it entertains to it. Some states are very open about this. If you make a mistake, youll have an opportunity to actually correct it if theres a problem, theyll try to contact you. Other states are not so forward and theres really a kind of spread. But certainly, pennsylvania is a place that people are very concerned about this. The other thing is and voting advocates have been doing is telling people to get their ballot preparation done early to make sure you have time to double, triple, quadruple check it before you send it off and hopefully that will cut down on this. Those who have done the mailin balloting before they have an electorate that are more familiar with the process. In wisconsin, people are trying to go all in on recruiting poll workers. One of the reasons that the lines happened, there were typically 180 polling places in milwaukee and this past spring, there were only five. Not only a pandemic, but you had the congestion of hundreds of thousands of people trying to get into the same polling places and so what theyre doing is trying to and the polling system the electoral system in wisconsin is hyper local. So the officials who run the elections in milwaukee have been doubling and tripling down, trying to make sure there are enough people to staff the polls on november 3rd. All right. And finally, errin haines. A couple of things because i know that youre not just a journalist, youre have a historian. So i want to take you back to just one, the idea that there is a history of backlash or, you know, repercussions when you see black voters taking advantage of absentee balloting as a means to participate safely and fully in this democracy. Im thinking of the marian 3 and also down in georgia. Are you concerned about that resurfacing here in 2020 and also, just the idea of these long lines, the record turnout that were seeing in the early voting states especially in person, the these are certainly an indication of voter excitement, but talk about why its also a form of Voter Suppression, potentially voter depression as these folks are certainly determined to cast their ballots but maybe its not the best idea to cast these votes as heroic for doing something they shouldnt have to do, not only in a pandemic, but too often in our cycles. Sure. You know, im always happy to take a question from my colleague, and also a former down the hall neighbor, but i think that one of the things one of the things that we know is that the Voting System when we see the long lines they inherently disadvantage people who are hourly wage workers, people who have difficulty with child care. Something during the pandemic everyone can relate to. They inherently advantage people who have more Flexible Work conditions. So when you see people standing in the lines for hours and hours, not only is it a sign of commitment on their part, but a builtin ability in their lives, whether its a work situation or a home situation allows them to be there for that time. Every time we see one of the long lines we should think of the numbers of people who are not able to get into the lines. In terms of the prosecutions and the legal history of this, sure, if you look back to 1981, the case that Jeff Sessions brought when he first began prosecuting people for absentee balloting which was literally prosecuting a couple which had marched with john lewis to help register voters in South Carolina and theres a direct line between that and the issues of suppression and depression in 2020. Front lines, the latest episode, whose vote counts can be streamed online on pbs. Org or youtube starting tomorrow. Jelani cobb, thank you very much for continuing on the show this morning. We look forward to it. Still ahead, parts of cases. We will go live to paris where strict new rules have been put in place. Plus, in an echo of trumps 2016 campaign attacks on Hillary Clinton, lock him up chants can now be heard during rallies when the president attacks joe biden, and some of his other political foes. Also joking with his supporters that he will never come back to the United States unless they ensure he wins. The Biden Campaign hopes he keeps that promise. I may never have to come back here again if i dont get iowa. I will never be back. You understand that . I may never have to come back here again. I lose minnesota, im never coming back. I dont care. Im never coming back. If i win, i know im coming back. If i lose, maybe not. If i lose, im going to be so angry at florida. Ill still love you, i think. Maybe not. If i lose to him, i dont know what im gonna do. I will never speak to you again. Youll never see me again. Can you imagine if i lose . What am i gonna do . Im not gonna feel so good. Maybe i have to leave the country . I dont know. Lets make the most of this Beautiful Day since were together we might as well say would you be mine could you be mine wont you be my neighbor what do you say . Will you be my neighbor, george . That was saturday night lives take on last weeks town hall event with President Trump and joe biden after a trump advisor grabbed the great mr. Rogers into things. Love mr. Rogers. John helmand, big debate this thursday night. Trump and biden. What are your thoughts thinking ahead to that, especially giving the dueling town halls last week that caused a lot of stress and controversy, but also you have to see a tale of two candidates separately. Totally, mika. A great very revelatory, that town hall, i think. Normally, we have three debates, and the first debate is the one that gets the most attention, has the biggest audience. Someone wins that debate and then the second debate becomes the drama of can the person who lost the first debate come back in the second debate. By the time you get to the third debate normally the kind of energy has gone out of the room. We have heard the candidates in two debate settings, a podium debate, a town hall debate, some sitting, some standing. The audience feels they have heard everything there is going to be here. We will have two in this cycle now. This is the last one and it is, having talked about all the stuff we talked about earlier on the program, the depth of Donald Trumps trouble he is in, this is the last big public event where donald trump can try to change the dynamic of the race, and he needs to if he is going to win. Its going to be fascinating to see. I think the audience will be very, very large and the big question is going to be does a different donald trump show up for this debate than the one who showed up for the first dab because, by every numerical and empirical metric, the first debate was a disaster for donald trump. And so the question now is, you know, as i say, we are hearing from inside trump world they are telling him he has to be different, he cant interrupt so much. Their view is, if they let joe biden speak, he will hang himself. We will see if donald trump can control himself. In the past attempts to do that have not always been successful. Still ahead, john helmand, thanks, a balance over science. President trump mocks joe biden for listening to scientists as Trump Campaigns across the country urging states to open up amid a spike in coronavirus cases. Morning joe is coming right back. Election. fisherman vo how do i register to vote . Hmm . Hmm . Hmm . woman on porch vo can we vote by mail here . grandma vo youll be safe, right . daughter vo yes four girls vo the polls voted grandma vo go out and vote its so important man at poll vo woo grandma vo its the most important thing you can do introducing the new sleep number 360 smart bed. Now temperature balancing, so you can sleep better together. Can it help keep me asleep . Absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. Can it help with snoring . Ive never heard snoring. Exactly. Hasnt worn masks consistently. See, i think thats less antiscience than a statement. What kind of a statement . A statement of strength, like were strong, we dont need a mask, that kind of thing. He equates wearing a mask with weakness. Does that make sense to you . Of course not. Do you have a feeling there is sometimes an allout war against science . Oh, yeah. I mean, particularly over the last few years. There is an antiauthority feeling in the world, and science has an air of authority to it. So people who want to push back on authority tend to, as a sidebar, push back on science. He is gonna lock down, gonna want us to lock down. Hell listen to the scientists. If i listened to the scientists we would right now have a country that would be in a massive depression. Okay. President trump making dr. Faucis point for him. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. Could we stop there for a second . Sure. Because actually in the first couple of minutes we saw two contrasts of america. And one of them actually is based on science. Years of study. And centuries of study. Yeah. On education. On knowledge. On the very things that got us im serious here, got us out of medieval times, got us out of the middle ages, the age of enlightenment, the age of reason, the age of medicine and science and learning, versus Donald Trumps very medieval view of the world that science, if i had listened to science. Yes, if you listened to science, donald, 220,000 people wouldnt be dead right now. And, you know, its really, mika, one of the more surprising things for me have been the number of friends, some very good friends that i have, a number of friends, a number of acquaintances, a number of educated people who still are believing what they read on facebook and still believing what they hear from donalds mouth, which is that this is all a political hoax. Still believe that. Yet, friends who tell me that this is going to be over, that covid is going to be over the day after the election because they believe that this is a political hoax. They still believe that 220,000 people buried their loved ones and thousands of people will be suffering from the consequences of having this disease for the rest of their lives in further rens of a political hoax. My friends who tell me its no worse than the flu. Its the same thing as the flu, when donald trump himself told b woodward in february it was five times deadlier than the flu. Its why whats happening right now is far more than a referendum on Donald Trumps four years in office, his political views, his political agenda, because he really doesnt have a political agenda. He is a president fwho is governed by gesture. This is instead a referendum on a lot more. A referendum on whether we believe our constitution says what it says or whether we want to have a president who runs around saying that article 2 gives him the power to do whatever he wants to do, that federal judges authority can be questioned, that the media is, in Joseph Stalins words, the enemy of the people, that there are no legitimate checks and balances against him, that the entire concept of madsonian democracy over 240 years is for nil when it comes to him. And then add on science. Add on medicine. Add on basic learning. You have that versus superstition. If you dont think people arent going to look back at those rallies with the same horror that we now look back on the salem witch trials, you dont think thats going to happen 50 years from now, 100 years from now, you are kidding yourself. In the middle of a pandemic, long after we are all gone, people will be showing these images and asking, what happened to america . Or at least a large subset of america. And what happened . It was donald trump. And history and americans in the future are going to have to grapple with that, as are those right now who are working day in and day out to further his agenda, or the tens of millions of people who are actually going along with this. And actually believing that Anthony Fauci actually is making money off of vaccines. A lie that continues to spread on facebook. I do wonder, mika, when this is all over, the facebook reckoning. Its hilarious. I saw on oped in the wall street journal yesterday, and the columnist, whose name doesnt deserve to be repeated on this program, was talking about the liberal dominance of facebook. Its so bad that the most viewed sites on facebook are all right wing. Not conservative. They are all rightwing extremists who are pushing alternative facts. Thats what facebook has become. Its become a propaganda jut fit. This is one of the things. Democrats are so stupid. They really are. Democrats and liberals in the media are so, so stupid. Why . Because somebody will say, oh, facebook is unfair to conservatives. Oh, what do we do . What do we we cant have them calling us bad yes, you can. Like, thats what conservatives think they can lie through their teeth, these right winger, wall street journal editorial piece lie through their teeth and talk about facebook having problems and twitter having problems with a story that even the New York Post knew was a lie. They knew it was such a lie well get to this, but okay. That they put a womans name on the story, reportedly that didnt even know they aher name going to be on the story. The man that wrote that story knew it was such a lie. The New York Post knew it was such a lie that he refused to put his name on that story. They published a series of lies, pedaled them by Rudy Giuliani, who admitted that nobody else would take it but Rupert Murdochs New York Post because they might look into it and tell the truth. And democrats say, oh, what are we going to do . So, im not talking about democrats now. I am just saying historically, republicans have been able to lie like this and columnists at the wall street journal editorial page, what are we going to do about the liberal problem at facebook . When, again, day in and day out the most viewed pages on facebook, the most shared pages on facebook are from rightwing conspiracy theorists, anti antitrumpers who presented disgusting, twisted view of the world. And then republicans say josh holly . I mean, serious . I dont know him at all, so this isnt personal. He is either the stupidest person ever to walk the halls of congress or the most disingenuous. He is one we have a problem with. We need to sensor facebook. Really . Josh, youre a conservative . And you have to censor i have problems with mark zuckerberg. I think 230 should be eliminated. I think like we broke up the baby belts. I think facebook should be broken into a thousand pieces after what they did in 2016, letting the russians in. And Sheryl Sandberg learning that the board was being told about this and getting angry that the truth was getting out. They should be broken into a million pieces. But, josh, you want to censor a company . Is it private . Really . Didnt you go to Harvard Law School or something . Seriously, did they teach you that you can, like, ban private businesses . No. Where i went to we didnt learn that in law school. So, mika, they are whipping up all of this nonsense, all of this garbage. Antiscience. Antifirst amendment. Antitruth. And we still have a race thats too close to call. And you talk about names that are not worth mentioning on this show. There are a lot of names that are worth mentioning on this show related to, for example, the wall street journal. I know you used to have Great Respect for the wall street journal and i would watch the editorial page. Some of the best writers on television saying, the press is all focused on coronavirus, like coronavirus suspect a big story. Look at the number on the screen. Its a crazy time in terms of what people will do to try to deny facts. Still ahead, 2016 the sequel. President trumps old attacks are failing to land on joe biden, but he hasnt stopped trying. Well look through Jonathan Lemires new reporting in the Associated Press next on morning joe. N the associedat press next on morning joe. Et the ninja foodi air fry oven. Make familysized meals fast. And because its a ninja foodi, it can do things no other oven can, like flip away. The ninja foodi air fry oven, the oven that crisps and flips away. And sweetie can coloryou just be. Gentle with the pens. Okey. Okey. I know. Gentle. Gentle new projects means new project managers. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. The moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a short list of quality candidates from our resume database so you can start hiring right away. Claim your seventy five dollar credit, when you post your first job at indeed. Com home. Expectand action. 16 people died did he catch our bad guy . Were know as the charmed ones. You got one day to show me what you got. I want to fight. You need us harry. What a goal bockey ball, hockey ball, you name it ball. Im gonna be ready. Just say show me peacock into your xfinity voice remote or download the app today. Campaign rallies over the weekend. Scattered showe superspreader events. With 15 days until election day, things sounded like four years ago. With crowds chanting lock him up whenever the president started to attack joe biden and his family. Joe biden is a corrupt politician, and he has been for a long time. Its a corrupt family and these people didnt ask him one single question about it. Lock him up lock him up lock him up i tell you something. Lock him up . You should lock them up. Lock up the bidens. Lock uphillry. Lock them up. Lock him up lock him up lock him up lock him up lock him up lock him up lock him up lock him up all right. And then there was lock her up chants in michigan as trump railed against democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer over lockdown measures days after the fbi revealed a militia plot to kidnap and try her for treason over covid lockdown measures. What you are doing in michigan has been amazing. Now, youve got to get your governor to open up your state, okay . And get your schools open. Get your schools open. The schools have to be open, right . Lock her up lock her up. Lock them all up. And then i guess they said she was threatened, right . She was threatened. And she blamed me. She blamed me. And our people were the ones that worked with her people. So lets see what happens. Lets see what happens, but ill have to tell you something. Our fbi has to start looking at antifa and they have to start looking at some people that theyre not looking at. Jonathan lemire, it makes no sense because we have a brain and were logical. It makes no sense that donald trump would lead chants of lock them up, lock her up, lock them up. In a state, talking about whitmer, lock them up, he said, who just survived a plot against her, where the fbi broke up, what, 14 people that were going to kidnap her, had the plans, were going to move her to a secure location in wisconsin and then try her with the implication, of course, that she should be executed. We have seen shocking videotape. And donald trump saying, i suppose they say no, it was his own fbi that said that there was a plot to kidnap a governor of the United States inspired by his liberate quotes. So he did that in michigan, which i got to believe, since she is popular, is going to hurt hurt donald trump there. And because i think michigan people are decent people, i dont think they would actually support that, and then you go to wisconsin where he is campaigning in wisconsin and has a superspreader event and acts as if that state is not a hot spot. Jonathan, we saw the polls. It showed an extraordinarily close race in two states and, of course, u gov has always been they have always had a closer race than the other polls have. And we believe the race is going to be very close in those states. Nobody knows who is going to win. Im just curious. What youre hearing on the ground, what are you hearing from trump people, what are you hearing from biden people about donald trump still doing things that would have destroyed any other political candidate other than him in any election in any place in america in any other time than right now . Lets start again by underscoring the reckless rhetoric in michigan against a governor who, indeed, was fortunate to not fall victim to what was a very dangerous kidnapping plot. Yes, as we know, the president has been gathering thousands of people in states across the country, very few in masks, no social distancing at these Campaign Rallies and there is probably no state right now thats a greater hot spot than wisconsin. Both campaigns acknowledge this race is close, that there is a sense that, yes, joe biden is winning because he is up in more battleground states. These leads arent insurmountable. Also what biden has done is push into some states that donald trump four years ago won handily, iowa, ohio, georgia, where now he has to play some defense. With only two weeks to go, thats a strain on his time and resources. There is also some frustration among trump aides and republicans at large who are starting to point some fingers here. They do not count out the president. They believe he can win. They acknowledge his path to victory is narrow and there is some blame game beginning in terms of why we are that way, a sense that the campaign squandered a lot of money early in the campaign and a sense of frustration that the president and i wrote about this this morning for the Associated Press, cant move past 2016. The clips we played show that. He is someone who is still sort of talking to a smaller and smaller portion. Electorate, stories that are magnified, the fox news viewers know by heart, but dont resonate elsewhere. The lock him up chants again trying to use stolen emails, much like he did in 2016 for his political benefit, this time with hunter biden, trying to weaponize those, a very dubious matter, of trying to magnify rather small characters in the 2016 mueller probe. He spent the other night in iowa going on about bruce orr, a long forgotten department of justice aide that very few outside the extreme right know who he is. Every moment he is doing that he is missing trying to hammer home what is supposed to be his Closing Argument about the economy, about saying that he built it once, he can could do it again, a gallup poll last week said 56 of americans feel they are better off now than four years ago despite the pandemic. Aides are trying to get him to focus. Four years ago in the closing stretch of the campaign he managed for him to show some distance. But so far he is not able to now. And they recognize their map is shrinking. Yes, he was in the upper midwest over the weekend. Michigan and wisconsin are uphill climbs. Right now the Trump Campaign as we have written, they feel their best and only path ford foordwao one the sun belt states. All of those states are close. Put all the emphasis on pennsylvania thinking that could be the state, though he is down in the polls, that could push him over the top. Coming up, covid19 is on the rise. Nbcs matt bradley is live in paris with a look at a resurgence of cases overseas. Morning joe is back in a moment. Moment this is an athlete, twenty reps deep, sprinting past every leak in our softest, smoothest fabric. Shes confident, protected, her strength respected. Depend. The only thing stronger than us, is you. I wanted more from my copd medicine, thats why ive got the power of 1,2,3 medicines with trelegy. The only fdaapproved, oncedaily 3 in 1 copd treatment. Trelegy the power of 1 2 3 trelegy 1 2 3 trelegy with trelegy and the power of 1, 2, 3, im breathing better. Trelegy works 3 ways to open airways, keep them open, and reduce inflammation for 24 hours of better breathing. Trelegy wont replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. Tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Do not take trelegy more than prescribed. Trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. Think your copd medicine is doing enough . Maybe you should think again. Ask your doctor about oncedaily trelegy. We know times are hard and were here for you. Find support at trelegy. Com. Welcome back to morning joe. Up next we are going live to france where many of the issues facing the u. S. Are also playing out there. Cases of coronavirus are surging across europe and eight cities in france are now under a new curfew orders. And france has also been seeing protests against Police Misconduct as french activists call for Police Reform and accountability. Some parallel issues there. Joining us now from paris, nbc news Foreign Correspondent matt bradley. Matt. Reporter yeah, mika, here in paris we are seeing regularly some days where there is more than 30,000 fresh cases of covid, but thats not what is inspiring these new crackdowns on the disease. We are seeing now the icu units starting to fill up here in paris. We have been told that the icu units here could be overwhelmed by as soon as this week and thats why the french government went ahead and imposed a curfew, not a lockdown, but a curfew starting 9 00 p. M. Every night to 6 00 a. M. Thats killed the cafe culture and restaurant culture at night. But french authorities hope this will be one way to control the spread of this virus without going back to that punishing lockdown that we saw back in the spring. You mentioned those other issues, those parallel issues. Another conversation thats happening here in france as it is in the states, we are seeing here just like in america, a racial reckoning. A lot of this, whats going on here, was inspired by the protest movement, the black lives Matter Movement that came up after the death of george floyd over the long, hot summer in america. We saw the same thing here. I spoke recently with the young author, a young investigative journalist who came out with a book here in france. He actually embedded or went undercover as a journalist with police here in france and he had some devastating, some quite damning allegations about police culture, about police conduct, and about the way they deal with young men, mostly of arab and african descent. Here is our report. Just a few miles from its sparkling center is a paris where few tourists ever tread. Thats where he spent six months as a Police Officer while researching an explosive new book that details what he described as the brutal violence and blatant racism of french police. The book has caught attention and added outrage to frances summer of discontent. Following the death of george floyd tens of thousands of french people have filled frances streets for months demanding Police Reform. He said he heard some police regularly referred to young men of color as bastards, beat up suspects who had been subdued and said some spoke admiring willingly of the American Police who many consider completely unrestrained. Unrestrained french Law Enforcement distance themselves from images of American Police violence and paris police asked prosecutors to investigate his book. Reporter when protests broke out in france this summer after the death of george floyd the interior minister said france is not the United States. Thats true. French Police Killed 26 people in 2019 compared to 1,098 in the u. S. U. S. Police killings are far higher even after adjusting for population. Thats still the highest in europe. But frances government doesnt keep statistics on race. They are officially colorblind. Human rights say they disproportionately target people of color, a stopandfrisk tactic that can easily escalate. That happened four years ago. This man took off running. When Police Caught him, three officers leaned on him to subdue him. He later died. His sister has spent the lapast four years demanding answers. He said Police Ignored him after he said i cant breathe. Police say the brother died from presesting medical problems, but a separate postmortem ordered by the family found he died of asphyxiation. The case is still ongoing. So far no one has been punished. She has become a leader in frances movement for Police Reform, a fight she says is now global. Reporter so, i should tell you guys that the police here, its not an easy job at all being a Police Officer. Theyve come under attack in many cases with arms, with heavy weapons. Sometimes just by people surrounding police stations and attacking them head on. So thats a very dangerous job as well, and thats scandalized the french public. Guys. And, matt, what can you tell us . There is this terror attack that happened on friday. A gruesome beheading of a teacher in paris . Reporter yeah, thats another issue that once again has raised these questions about secularism, about immigration, about integration of religious minorities here in france. That 37yearold teacher in a suburb north of paris, he was thought to have sort of been targeted because he showed care ka issues of the Prophet Muhammad to his students, many muslim. It is said he told those students they had the option to leave the class ahead of time. He still showed some of the students. This is part of a lesson on freedom of expression, one of the central pillars of the French National consciousness, and thats why this brutal death questions of the brutality aside has been a major issue, such a cause for so many people, many french people feel as if the entire National Consciousness is under attack, not just the education system, not just this one teacher. Nbcs matt bradley live in paris. Thank you very much for your reporting. And up next on morning joe i ask you sincerely from the bottom of my heart, please keep me in your prayers. Pray i have the capacity to step up and do this job because four more years of donald trump will fundamentally change the nature of this country for several generations. Pray for me, please. That was former Vice President joe biden yesterday during a Virtual Event with black faith leaders from michigan. Now a Bipartisan Group of christian leaders has launched a new campaign to convince religious voters to oppose donald trump. Well talk to a member of that group next on morning joe. Its an important time to save. With priceline, you can get up to 60 off amazing hotels. And when you get a big deal. You feel like a big deal. Priceline. Every trip is a big deal. Some Companies Still have hr stuck between employeesentering data. A. Changing data. More and more sensitive, personal data. And it doesnt just drag hr down. It drags the entire business down with inefficiency, errors and waste. Its ridiculous. So ridiculous. With paycom, employees enter and manage their own data in a single, easy to use software. Visit paycom. Com, and schedule your demo today. Like the visit a doctor anywhere our rv takes us plan. And the zero copays means more money for rumba lessons plan. Find the right plan for you from unitedhealthcare. Get medicare with more. Find the right plan for you from unitedhealthcare. Listen to what every strain. Every twistoof and every backache is telling you you cannot do this. Pain says you cant. Advil says you can. That is the latest ad campaign from the not our faith pact, a group of bipartisan christian leaders who oppose President Trumps reelection. And a member of that group jones us now. Michael ware. He led religious outreach for president Barack Obamas reelection campaign. Also with us, president of repairers of the breach and cochair of the Poor Peoples Campaign reverend William Barber. Great to have you both. Michael, i want to hear a lot about your effort to reach out to the christians, but i first have to ask why are they with trump . I mean, these are the last people you would think would need outreach. Well, millions of christians, trumps reelection, its important, christians dont owe donald trump anything. He owes them. He owes americans and hes failed them. Hes forced christians to answer for his actions because he is kind of globed on to their faith, and that needs christians are done answering for Donald Trumps actions. He failed them in policy and in personal behavior. Mika, i think millions of christians are going to be a part of the coalition that defeats donald trump in a couple of weeks. At not our faith. Com and not our faith we are going to be making that Closing Argument, that case laying out why christians will not support Donald Trumps reelection. I want to follow up with more on that. I want to bring in reverend William Barber on this and your concerns, if you have any, reverend barber, at this point about election day and about making sure all the votes are counted, especially the people who you represent. Well, we do, and the Poor Peoples Campaign a National Call for a moral revival, we have a protect initiative. We must do more educating people for the movement who vote. What we know is extremists for a long time have shown us that they know they cant win without Voter Suppression and low voter turnout even in the south, even socalled red states. They know many of those states are not red. Those are Voter Suppression states. This year its on steroids. What weve done on september 14th, we had over a Million People show up for a massive get out the vote campaign. Over 200 organizations now that are working together. We have over 3,000 people that are doing also over 2 million for voters who have been infrequents, to move them to the polls. We are making sure we have forward justice in the defense fund ready to go for legal challenges if necessary, and we are hunkering down in eight east states where just 1 to 19 of people can fundamentally shift the election. We have to meet Voter Suppression with a determination and with a commitment that this constitution will be lived out. What it says, mika, is no one can deny or abridge my right to vote, and we have to fight for that right, protect that right, and not turn back in this moment. Jonathan lemire. Michael, i wanted to ask you about the Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett. Her hearings were last week. The republicans are rushing to move this forward. Looks like the vote will happen before the election. How you see her nomination playing among people of faith and how you are seeing it cut one way or the other in terms of she herself is, of course, deeply religious, catholic. How could this electrify one way or the other the electorate in the next two weeks . Well, its a good question. I think, obviously, these are deeply divisive issues. Christians and people of faith disagree on these issues. I think what has been important is biden has sent a real clear message that this is not about Amy Coney Barrett, that this is about the hypocritical process that this president and Mitch Mcconnell have gone through to get this nominee through, that i was pleased that president that biden was acknowledged Amy Coney Barrett was a good person, that this wasnt about her. And so i think what democrats have done have really deflated part of what the republicans game plan was here, which was to make this a divisive issue, try to pull out comments from democrats, and the Biden Campaign has stayed focused. They focus on aca. They focus on the fact that this president finds every opportunity to divide the american people, especially around issues of faith, around our deepest values instead of using those opportunities to bring us together. Reverend barber can i comment on that . Yes, please do. I want to agree with michael but disagree. There is no question on where christians stand on public policy. They have to guy called jesus that made it real clear in every sermon that he prepared, joe often talks about that. He said to be christian is to help the poor, its to heal people, its to care for the immigrant, its to welcome to the stranger. Now, that means you can cannot be in a society where you have 140 Million People, before covid, 8 more people in poverty since may, and then and claim to be a christian and you be against programs that would lift the poor. You cant be against health care and claim to be a christian. You cant be against immigrants and claim to be a christian. You might put the title on, but we have this guy who is the founder, whose name is who wrote a whole book, and that book was from the prophet and they were all clear. So owe keep trying to say there is all this division. No. There is a group of folks historically in america who have tried to use this for their own purposes, take the name, but then they support policies that are not christian. A tree is known by the food it bears. And so christians have to be, if you want to follow christ if you want to follow someone else, you know. To follow crist hrist is liftin the poor, to be for health care, caring for the hungry. When jesus talks about poverty and lifting up the poor, we call it christianity. When a politician does it, we call it socialism. Its wrong. So what we have to be clear is there has been a lot of hypocrisy and misuse. And what happened for a lot of christians in this moment is they are going through a period of retention. They recognize they have been too quiet too long or they have been and not just christians, jews, muslims and others, and we need to stand in this moment and represent our faith or hush. Either represent our faith or hush. And there is no way you can be a person of faith and be on the side of lying, domination, evil, oppression, killing folks, not providi provide health care. Its not a division. Its a distortion. It doesnt add up. Reverend William Barber and michael ware, we will have to have you back. Thank you both. Very should continue this. Pfizer, the apparent frontrunner in developing a vaccine for the u. S. Announced on friday that the pharmaceutical giant will not allow for emergency authorization of its Coronavirus Vaccine until midnovember. While a vaccine could come before the end of the year, this will likely rule out one about ever election day. For months President Trump promised a vaccine before elections. Raising concerns that political pressure could force a vaccine through the regulatory process prematurely and without assurance that it is safe and effective, pfizer made the move. We are back in that moment with much more morning joe. Id call my grandfather as a result of the research that ive started to do on ancestry. Having ancestry to fill in the gaps with documents, with photographs, connecting in real time means that were having conversations that are richer. I have now a closer relationship with my grandfather. I cant think of a better gift to give to my daughter and the generations that come after her. Bring your Family History to life like never before. Get started for free at ancestry. Com bring your Family History to life like never before. [announcer] meet the make familysized meals fast. And because its a ninja foodi, it can do things no other oven can, like flip away. The ninja foodi air fry oven, the oven that crisps and flips away. Tonight. Ill be eating roasted cauliflower tacos with spicy chipotle sauce. [doorbell chimes] thank you. [puck scores] oooow yeah i wasnt ready you want cheese to go with that whine . . As the nation prepares to pick a president , we recently sat down with someone who served at the highest levels of the u. S. Government. Former second lady lynne cheney. Shes the author of the new book the virginia dynasty four president s and the creation of the america nation. Here now is that conversation. I was so intrigued by the idea that there were four men who grew up in this and lived in this small circle just east of the blue ridge and that they all became great men. Leaders of the country. How did that happen, i wanted to know. And did they affect one another or was it virginia . What were the factors that went into it . And thats what made me think i should undertake this book about six years ago. Well, you know, as we talk about the virginia president s, of course, you talk about it yourself. Other biographers now are paying closer attention to the separation between their words that have moved all of us through the years. Martin luther king, of course, used the words of jefferson in his letter from birmingham jail. Even in the 1800s. Frederick douglass also quoted jefferson so much. But talk about that yawning gap between their extraordinary words and leadership and their private lives as slave owners. You know, they were born in an amazing time. They had all studied the scottish enlightenment and were of the mindset that one could use reason. People could use reason to make the world better. They believed that thoroughly, but they were also slaveholders. And unable to provide, find a way to the total emancipation that justice required. However, they went ahead with the plan for establishing a republic based on the ideals that are so uplifting. Freedom, justice, equality, liberty. And those ideals became the strongest weapon in the destruction of slavery. Growing up, its interesting. Jefferson was somebody that i was brought up to revere because of what he did with the declaration of independence and also just the fact that as ken burns once said, he was the man of the millennia because he really boiled down the rights of individuals. And what guarantees they should be given. I also love a response that you said here. Which of the president s would you like to have lunch with most . Jefferson, even though hes not the one i most admire. It seems the closer that some of us look at thomas jefferson, the less impressive he is as a person that will, of course, he remains an extraordinary influential political philosopher. Tell me about jefferson. For a long time, the image of jefferson was polished by historians. And very interesting now to go look at the historians. Renowned historians today who simply would not believe that jefferson had a relationship and children with Sally Hemings. So that polish, that burnish was there for a long time. As we should, i think that, you know, the cover has been taken off. And one of the great things thats happened is Historical Houses like monticello now fully recognize the presence of slaves. They invite slave the descendants of those who were enslaved to come visit. Theyve recently renovated the room that Sally Hemings stayed in. So weve begun to recognize, as you point out, that there was more than one side to jefferson and the other founders as well. What made George Washington the indispensable man of our republics founding. I think it was john adams who once said that washington has the gift of silence. In other words, rather than leaping into any controversy, before the outlines of it were clear, he sat back and watched. And that made him seem very steady. There was criticism of washington, and it was justified that in the early days of the revolution, he was indecisive. And everyone was really glad to see when he got a second in command it had to experience. That indecisiveness plagued him throughout the revolution but he didnt show it as much as another might have because he didnt talk too much. Talk about what you learned additionally about James Madison in writing this book. Well, it was very interesting to me to see that washington did have madison for a confidante in a sense for a while. But that ended when washington began to talk about how we needed for people to elect the president. But then go away and not bother him while he ruled the country. And this seemed quite an odd approach to madison and to jefferson and this was the beginning of a great break between the two of them, indeed three of them, including monroe and washington. To see that happen, to see that break in our history and to understand that washington ended up disliked, even despised by monroe, for sure, as the virginia dynasty developed, there was this sharp schism that changed history. How are you and the Vice President faring during the age of covid . Well, weve hunkered down like everyone else. And that has many disadvantages. You hate not seeing your friends at little intimate dinners and restaurants and so on, but got good books to read. Got great things on netflix. Other books to write. So it was kind of a good time when there was almost no one interrupting my effort for getting this book on the virginia dynasty completed. I hope its over soon. Thank you for being with us and to talking about your book. Thanks to you and the Vice President for your service to this country through the years. We hope you continue to stay safe and healthy through the pandemic. Please tell Vice President cheney, i thought he looked like a hunk, like a male model when he wore that mask. Real men wear masks. Ill pass that along. Yeah, im sure that will just make his day. Thank you so much, lynne. Great talking to you again. Thanks, joe. That does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Hi there. Im stephanie ruhle. It is monday, october 19th. We are just 15 days out from the big election day. Lets get smarter. We talk about the election as if its just in the future. But the truth is, we are right in the middle of it. Why . Because roughly 25 million americans have already cast their vote. That means nearly 20 of the total number of people who voted in 2016, theyve already cast ballots this time around. And this morning, donald trump is in arizona, a state that he won by three points last time. His opponent, former vp joe biden was in North Carolina yesterday. Hes off the trail today getting ready for thursdays big debate. However, his vp nominee, senator Kamala Harris, is back on the