Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With David Gura 20200118

Latest from our bureau in london. Molly, this is being described as bye Buckingham Palace, a new model set to take place in the spring of 2020. What do we know from Buckingham Palace and the queen herself . A very new model. The palace held a Conference Call, and immediately after the palace released two statements, a statement from her majesty the queen and a statement from Buckingham Palace. The headlines, david, are that harry and meghan will retain their hrh titles, they will not use them though. They will no longer represent the queen officially. They will be known as the duke and duchess of sussex. Importantly, david, they will no longer take state funds, and look, both harry and meghan are very independently wealthy. They will also pay back at least some, if not all, of the renovation work that was done on Frogmore Cottage, estimated around 2. 5 million pounds. Frogmore cottage is that cottage on the queens Windsor Estate they moved into. They will also with the queens elizabethiqueens blessing keep their private patronages. Particularly over the last week, david, they will spend the majority of their time in north america. They are about to enter a really different life than what harry has grown up with. This is not a royal life. They will not be acting in royal capacities anymore. Somebody who has been watching all of this unfold very closely, was on that Conference Call is our colleague keir simmons. He joins us now by phone. Pick up the pieces from what were looking at here. Help us understand in full what this looks like versus what he was discussed, what has been hammered out here over these last couple of weeks . Well, i think what we have just learned is more dramatic, more drastic than had been flagged in the past week or so because what molly was talking about there, the fact that they will now spend the majority of their time in north america, well, remember that the first initial proposal was that they would split their time. Now, admittedly, they plan to keep their home at Windsor Castle Frogmore Cottage while paying back the public funds spent on that home. But i think that is a picture of a couple who to put it bluntly are leaving, are leaving the uk, and that is i mean, aside from meghan this American Woman who came was such a breath of fresh air to the royal family, also harry princess dianas son, one of the most beloved members of the royal family. The two of them are going, frankly, and then i think another aspect of it, which has really struck me, royal officials tell me that there are no restrictions on the commercial deals that they can do. Now, they do they do plan to uphold the dignity of the crown, if you like to not do anything that would embarrass the queen i suppose you could say. Theyre being very clear about that. Thats pretty extraordinary, too. It means effectively that they can go out there into the private sector and use their fame and status to do deals that i would suggest mean that they will become very much more wealthy than they already are, and those two things together i think tell us that these this couple who are so have been so flamboyant and by many people so loved and who many people felt were an opportunity for the royal family to meet the future with open arms, this couple are instead going to forge their own path while very much part of the family, and the queens statement is clear about that, they are part of the royal family, not working members of the royal family. Its really, frankly, pretty stunning. Reading there from the statement from her majesty the queen, harry, meghan and archie will always be much loved members of my family, she writes. You say this was more drastic than what was expected here. Take us behind the scenes as much as you can to the negotiations. What was happening in norfolk . What these conversations were like. This a seismic cultural development, but are from what youre describing, what needed to be hammered out was pecuniary, financial, that was the assumption of tense conversation between the queen and members of the whole family. Incredibly tense, and the tension for the royal family is always these two aspects. The fact that these are real people, a real family with real emotions who are having to deal with all those things, just as all of us do in our own families, and at the same time theyre having to deal with constitutional issues and issues of the future and for the queen and for Prince Charles and for prince william, very, very much looking to the future and wanting to sustain the royal family in the decades and the centuries ahead. They dont want to be looked back on as having made decisions that led to cause a crisis, that led to questions being raised about the royal family. So that is really knowing all that, you can just imagine how difficult it was in the room. I think from the statements you can see the queens deep, deep affection and love for her grandson and for her grand daughterinlaw, and that she, i think its honest. I think its genuine that she very much recognizes just how hard these past few years have been for them, and i think frankly what they have been saying to the royal family is we just cant put up with this any longer. We simply cannot continue like this, and so a path has to be found, and i will Say Something else, too. I think that the queen knowing what happened with harrys mom, princess diana, will have had that very much in mind. I think you can see that in some of the decisions theyve made. So, for example, they wont be his and her Royal Highness, but they will keep those titles. Of course diana was stripped of those titles, and there was a backlash against the royal family because of that. Yes. And then in terms of protection, i think there will be some kind of protection. Harrys funded, im personally not quite clear how it will be funded but i think that this is an attempt to put on a united front while at the same time the truth is that harry and meghan are going their own way. Keir simmons, stay with us if you would. I want to bring in julie montag montague. Shes a royal expert. Shes be familiar to those who watched the ladies of london series on bravo. Thats where i want to go with you, julie, if i could. During the course of that series, its something with which you are grappling, the modernization of this system, and as keir talks about them holding on to frogmore, their estate, these are things with which you had to grapple as well. There was a system in place, an economy in place for so many hundreds of years, and here we are at a turning point. Put this moment in some greater historicalc historicalc Historical Context if you would. The same thing that happened to the british aristocracy. Over a thousand homes were lost after the Second World War because they couldnt keep them up anymore. They were obviously very different from the royal family in the sense that we still carry on, but running a business, ore homes become our business. Its open to the public. I mean, that is how we survived, and again, my husband married an american and were constantly thinking of ways of how can we get more people to visit us in order for us to repair the roof sochlt wh. So when i look at the royal family and meghan and harry, this is a modern couple who is basically breaking out of the mold of the royal family and saying right, were going to do wonderful and Amazing Things but were also going to become financially independent. Were not kpent dpent dependents anymore. Of course were going to be respectful. But at the same time youve got to do what you kneneed to do in order to raise family and also do good. I think its a wonderful thing what theyre doing and, you know, it is hard as an american coming into this country and marrying into aris tok psy ask no less the royal family with the formalities and the protocols. You can feel quite suffocated. So luckily i married into a family who said great, weve got this american. Shes filled with ideas, vitality, north america, and i can feel the same way with me megh meghan. Shes full of ideas. She doesnt want to damage the royal family at all, but she also wants to be independent. Keir simmons, help us understand what opportunities are available to these two now. There have been so much reporting over the last few weeks about what they might do in terms of entertainment. There was that video released of them in conversation with bob iger. What do they want to do . What do we know of what this couple wants to do now that they moved their lives as youve said for most of the year to north america . Yeah, i mean, i dont think we fully know. I do think that that conversation that we effectively overheard because the cameras were there between prince harry and bob iger was pretty incredible to see prince harry effectively pitching for his wife for voiceover work. Obviously that voiceover work, the money from that went to charity, but that moment gives you a picture of what will worry the royal family. Being a commercial entity if you like, your own private money can be messy. It can be not very royal, and so that is a danger that harry and meghan now face. I think its important to repeat what the palace has said, which is that harry and meghan plan to uphold the values of her majesty. The question is what does that exactly mean, and when does a deal or a piece of acting work, in meghans case or perhaps a partnership with a fashion brand, or maybe in harrys case, some kind of a sporting endea r endeavor, who knows . When does that at what point does that cross the line and no longer and no longer uphold the values of the royal family . In many ways its a subjective judgment, and i think the really crucial thing is that today, this weekend, effectively the royal family have kind of relinquished control if you like. They have set basically this agreement says that harry and meghan are allowed to do whatever they want to do. They dont have to go as they would have had to up until now to anyone else to ask permission. Ill be honest, i think they found having to go and ask for permission incredibly stifling, very difficult, having said that, the purpose of those restrictions are to protect the brand if you like. And that in a sense i think summarizes the crux of the problem that the royal family has faced. It is how do you let harry and meghan have their own free will while protecting the brand, and its incredibly difficult and thats what theyre trying to achieve here. I will say this, though. You know, i agree. I think there will be lots of people who will be celebrating that harry and meghan have made their own choices, have freed themselves from the stuffy royal hallways of palaces and more senior royals telling them what to do. At the same time, i think its incredibly disappointing for the royal family that these two, you know, ambassadors, these two bright, fun, enthusiastic, caring, and very in many ways sort of a breath of fresh air couple are no longer going to be working members of the royal family. I think the royal family will be poorer for it. I think at the wedding it felt for me, the wedding felt like a moment of change for the royal family in which the royal family kind of embraced doing things differently and new communities, including americans. Yes. And i think its a real shame if this does turn out to be as much of a break as i fear it. One thing quickly if we can, yeah. They are going to review it in a years time, so the door is just left slightly ajar that if it doesnt work, things can be put back together, but its hard to imagine. Some finale here, the cultural conversation continues as keir simmons says, molly hunter joining us from our london don bure london bureau. 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Giving you a nice big edge over your competition. Thats the power of edgetoedge intelligence. Thanks so much for joining us, its a busy saturday. Im david gura at msnbc headquarters in new york. On the weekend eve of only the third impeachment trial of a u. S. President , this is a country facing a day of protests, serious deadlines on capitol hill, a News Conference thats taking place right now in alaska that could be pivotal. We are watching senator Lisa Murkowski speak with reporters at her home state of alaska, and at issue is whether she will call for witnesses in the Senate Impeachment l trial. If that happens, if she says so, we will bring those comments to you live. In the meantime, the managers in the impeachment trial, essentially the prosecutors are hard at work preparing a brief that summarizes their argument. The deadline for that brief to be filed is just about three hours away. Also today, President Trumps lawyers have until 6 00 p. M. Eastern time to respond to the formal summons issued by senators on thursday night. The president s legal team has a monday noon deadline to finish their brief outlining how they plan to defend their client. All that paves the way for what happens on tuesday, the start of the impeachment trial of donald john trump. We go first to someone who will be on capitol hill covering those proceedings, my colleague Leanne Caldwell. Give us a sense of whats happening in alaska today. There were a handful of senators that you and your colleagues on capitol hill are watching more closely than others. What are you looking to hear from the senator from alaska . Reporter yeah, senator Lisa Murkowski is absolutely one of those senators that were watching. Thats because shes one that has indicated that she would be open to a more expansive senate trial, one that includes new witnesses like john bolton or mick mulvaney, who we didnt hear from over in the house investigation. But what murkowski has said up until this point is that she will consider perhaps new witnesses, but she doesnt want to consider that until late in the process, and that is where democrats and republicans completely disagree on this issue is democrats want an agreement on witnesses at the forefro forefront. You could be sure that theyre going to force that issue on tuesday when Mitch Mcconnell releases his organizing resolution to set the parameters of this trial, which i will note no one has or we the press, the public, the democrats, even a lot of the republican senators have not seen the text of this organizing resolution yet, so we dont really know a whole lot of whats in it. Were told that its similar to the clinton one, not to get too wongky in here, but the rules matter. And when were only about two to three days away from the start of this trial, not understanding what rules youre operating under is disconcerting to a lot of democrats here. Its a rare treat to see you on capitol hill on saturday. We have this list of managers who are going to be making the case from the house to the senate. What are they up to this weekend . What do we know about the preparations theyre undertaking at this point in time . Reporter yeah, theyre working. They have that brief deadline at 1 00, which we expect them to meet that deadline. The seven house manager, the prosecutors of this case, theyre going to gather again on capitol hill, and theyre going to coordinator and really condense and refine the case that theyre going to make and start presenting next week. And then monday, which is a federal holiday here, of course its Martin Luther king jr. Day, they are going to be here working. Theyre going to take a walk through of the senate chamber, which has been transformed to look more like a courtroom. Tables have been brought in for the defense, for the prosecution. Theres new offices set up, and so theyre definitely underway with their final preparations ahead of this, you know, big historic moment, david. Absolutely. Leanne caldwell. My colleague on capitol hill, thank you very much. Well check in with you throughout the day. Katie fang joins me, shes an attorney and msnbc legal contributor talking about the work at hand, writing these briefs. What do we know what theyre going to look like, what these lawyers who happen to be members of congress hammer out here. Other than the senate rules of impeachment, we dont have any templates by which people can go on. Looking at the clinton impeachment process is really illustrative, that is going to be what ends up youre going to have these deadlines we just heard about at the beginning of the segment as to when these breefsd are going to be filed. They will have citations to the law. They will make arguments. There will be an explanation by the house managers as to why these particular articles of impeachment are viable, and simultaneously youll get a response from trumps defense team that will say, listen, they are not grounded in legal reality and thats the reason why you cant sustain any of these articles. Anything that you have mined from these documents from back in the late 90s thats relevant today . There is a delicious historical residency here. The irony has not escaped us. Whats good for the goose is good for the gantder. If you look at ken starr what we did find is something in one of the trial breefs that was prepared by the clinton team, and there was, quote, the need for discovery. Ken starr and others said, you know, were going to present this case, but then clintons team said theres the urgent need for discovery of relevant evidence, and Senate Impeachment rules 5 and 6 allow us to get documentary evidence and witness depositions. You dont have witnesses that come in in a typical trial setting. They dont come in and raise their right hand to tell the truth. What you have are witness depositions, and thats what we had in the clinton case. The irony that ken starr is involved, donald trump probably didnt think through this really well when he decided to use ken sta starr. Last question here, who are these documents for . This has been a question ive asked throughout this entire process. It was certainly a question during the course of the impeachment inquiry during those hearings. Are these lawmakers presenting these cases to chief Justice John Roberts, members of the senate, or is it to the American People . How cognizant do they have to be of what the people think of all of this . I dont think its for the average joe and its not for chief roberts. The reason why is hes kind of handicapped. Hes hampered in terms of his ability and power to do anything. Its a 51 senate vote to be able to make changes and getting witnesses, et cetera. Its really for can i convince the people who may be theoretically on the fence to maybe change their mind about voting for things like witnesses. Katie fang is going to be back here in later in the hour. We just talked a bit about this, the white house announcing President Trumps team of lawyers, ken et star among them, he of course was the special counsel that investigated president clinton after a departure from baylor university, ken starr has become a regular on fox news. Hes going to work alongside Alan Dershowitz. He was on the o. J. Simpsons defense and he was for many decades a professor at Harvard Law School. Hes central to whats become another big story in recent weeks. He was a friend of jeffrey epstein. Ken starr and Alan Dershowitz join a team of five other lawyers. Walk us through this list, help us understand sort of what it telegraphs, the members of this legal team the white house announced late last night . Zb reporter theyre going to try to break the trial into discreet sections. Youll have an argument about the constitutionality of it. Robert ray and ken starr will be focusing on the threshold question, do these crimes or these allegations actually meet the threshold of impeachment . Cleary some of these arguments are going to bleed into each other, and one of the challenges Pat Cipollone is likely to have is how to make sure all these attorneys, all of them have a lot of experience and probably have very strong opinions about how to try this case in the senate, how they stay in their lane. That will also be complicated by House Republicans that also feel like they know this case. They of course arent formally part of the president s impeachment defense in the senate trial. Theres also a public aspect to this, and thats why you see some prosecutors or some former attorneys come in that have some public experience, ken starr obviously does as well. Pam bondi, former attorney general in fell, and bondi was asked about these new photos that have come out from lev parnas as part of an additional bit of evidence coming from judiciary, and she seemed to dismiss it as the work of a publicity hound, have a listen. I havent spoken to the president this morning, but i can tell you as a former Florida Attorney general in a state with almost 22 million people, we took pictures constantly, constantly with thousands of people, and clearly lev parnas liked to take pictures with a lot of people. So thats where as of saturday, the aides are huddling throughout the country, but mostly at the white house. Theres a sense that they want to try to finalize what their strategy is going to be. Theres some deadlines today. Theres also a deadline monday for this final brief, and then we have to see just what the trial actually looks like and importantly, to leannes reporting what other senators are saying. Senator collins up in maine is clearly indicating that shes open to hearing fresh evidence. But thats not on the first round, so youd have one round of the trial, and then maybe you would have an additional vote on whether or not theyre going to hear new evidence, whether its these Text Messages or these photos or whether or not theyre going to hear directly from witnesses like, for example, ambassador john bolton. David. Hans let me ask you about the president s engagement with this process. Hes there with you in palm beach florida this weekend on vacation. He heads to texas, and then from there on ward to the swiss alps. Hes going to go to davos for the World Economic forums. What do you know about how engaged or involved hes going to be . The president selected his legal team. The president signed off on all the final members. I dont think anyone that has covered this white house is under any other impression that the president makes a lot of these decisions by himself. He makes a lot of these decisions by himself late. You know, youre suggesting that hes going to be off in davos. The president seemed to hedge that a couple of days ago. Now, all indications are that he will go to davos. There is a view inside the white house that maybe would be helpful to the president s case not to engage in the nittygritty and the play by play, not to have him be the commentat commentator in chief but have him act as the commander in chief. When youre abroad, sometimes it provides a venue for traditional president ial photo ops, traditional president ial activities. Well see to what extent the president reverts back to twitter and provides some commentary. Hans, thank you very much for the reporting. I appreciate it. Coming up, across the country today, the womens march 2020, the annual event taking on special significance in this an election year. Thats coming up. Why are we doing this . Why are we doing what . Using my old spice moisturize with shea butter body wash. All i wanted was to use your body wash and all i wanted was to have a body wash. You get more than yourFree Shipping. Ir, you get everything you need for your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, ill take that. Wait honey, no. When you want it. You get a delivery experience you can always count on. You get your perfect find at a price to match, on your own schedule. You get fast and Free Shipping on the things that make your home feel like you. Thats what you get when youve got wayfair. So shop now breathe freely fast, with vicks sinex. My congestions gone. I can breathe again ahhhh i can breathe again ughh. Vicks sinex, breathe on you got to accenttchuate the positive eliminate the negative and latch on to the affirmative but dont mess with mister inbetween you got to spread joy up to the maximum its okay, you got this bring gloom down to the minimum slow it down a little and have faith, or pandemonium its okay liable to walk upon the scene do you recall, not long ago we would walk on the sidewalk all around the wind blows we would only hold on to let go blow a kiss into the sun we need someone to lean on blow a kiss into the sun we needed somebody to lean on all we need is someone to lean on january 20th, 2017, that is when donald trump was inaugurated, and the day after that hundreds of thousands of demonstrators took to the streets in the Nations Capital and in other cities across the country for the womens march thought to be the largest single day of protest in United States history since the vietnam war. In the years following that gathering, the event has changed and gotten somewhat smaller. The permit filed for this years march in washington allowed for up to 10,000 protesters. Despite smaller numbers, organizers have a clear message this election year. My colleague dasha burns is in washington, and kathy park is at the march here in new york. Dasha, i want to start with you where it all began. Looks like this years march has begun to subside. How was it different from what we saw in 2017, and how much of that was intentional . Reporter yeah, well, crowds have now dispursersed and protesters are leaving signs behind me right in front of the white house. Impeachment a big theme, a big rallying cry for this years march, but youre right. It did feel different, definitely much smaller in comparison to the last few ye s years. Basically since the first march crowds have dwindled more and more. Organizers are trying to sort of reorient this movement back to that grass roots activism. This year we didnt see a whole lot of starstudded celebrity speeches. It was really just about the march, and when i asked participants why they think that the crowd size has gotten smaller, they told me they think people have gotten a little bit discouraged because they havent seen the rapid progress they were hoping to see, but organizers are saying, look, there are record numbers of women running for office. Thats a part of the impact of this movement, so they point to that as a step forward, and of course donald trump is going to stand trial in the senate this week, and they point to that as part of whats been galvanizing people around here as well. Kathy park here in new york on the west side of manhattan, and kathy, youre among some of those who have come out for the womens march today in new york city. What are they saying about why they came . What was the reason they came out today in the cold, in the snow here in new york . Reporter yeah, hey, david, good afternoon to you. Speaking of the cold and the snow, the snow actually has stopped falling, but the weather played a big factor in the rally and march. 6th avenue back open, but about an hour ago, thousands of people were marching down this street. However, we were able to rally this group of demonstrators. I want to bring in juni here. Tell me, whats important for you . This is your fourth march in a rally you have participated in, correct . Yes, thats correct. I believe in womens rights. I believe in equality for all. I believe in feminism, which just means equality for all, and i feel like that gets forgotten. Thats why i march every year. Why was it so important for you and the rest of the group to participate this time around . Our voices need to be heard. We need to be seen, and we also need to remember that every vote counts, and so i just feel like the more we show ourselves and the more we raise our voices the more the concerns of the people can be heard. Over the years, do you think the movement has been effective . I think its a give and take. I think its a give and take. I believe that sometimes, you know, our voices have been heard and legislation has changed, but other times i feel like theres a minority thats become a louder majority and sound than in people, so i think the silent majority needs to stand up, rise up and speak our truth and speak our rights as human beings, as american citizens. Great. Judy, thank you so much. And david, as you can see, there are still folks who are very much energized, and they want to still press forward with their message, but as far as the event goes, it has wrapped up for the day. Kathy park in new york, dasha burns in washington, d. C. , my thanks to both of you for your reporting, my thanks to judy for her comments. The National Archives admits to making multiple alterations of a photograph of the 2017 womens march blurring out signs that were critical of President Trump. A large color photo of the 2017 march now greets visitors at a National Archive exhibit celebrating the centennial of womens suffrage, but according to the washington post, if you take a closer look at that photo, you can see that it was, in fact, edited. Heres a side by side look at one of those signs critical of President Trump that was altered, posters referencing womens anatomy also prevalent during that first march also blurred. The National Archives responded to that article saying in part, as a nonpartisan nonpolitical federal agency, we blurred references to the president s name on some posters so as not to engage in current political controversy. That statement continuing our mission is to safeguard and provide access to the nations most important federal records and our exhibits are one way in which we connect the American People to those records. Modifying the image was an attempt on our part to keep the focus on the records. House managers are writing their brief for the impeachment trial this weekend, and the president s lawyers are also huddling. That group Just Announced by the white house including most notably ken starr, the former independent counsel whose information led to the impeachment of president clinton two decades ago. Peter baker profiles him for the New York Times today. Quote, in adding mr. Starr to his legal team, President Trump enlisted one of the best known and most polarizing lawyers in the country, someone who in recent months has become a regular defender of the president on fox news. Peter baker is the chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times and an msnbc political analyst. Great to speak with you, great piece as well. You say this was a head spinning turn. This was a name that surprised a lot of people. Why did the president pick him . Whats the thinking here on the president s part . Well, i think the answer is two words, fox news. Hes seen judge starr on fox news defending him. He likes that. Hed like to see, you know, a combative and strong defense. He doesnt feel he often gets elsewhere, and i think that he thought the idea that the guy who led to the impeachment of the last president saying that this one is illegitimate gave it credibility. In other words if this is the person whos the expert on impeachment, President Trump thinks, and he says my impeachment isnt legitimate, that must be a very credible representative. Now, of course theres another side to that story because, of course, ken starr brings the backage of his history in the clinton impeachment to this senate trial starting in the week to come, you can certainly imagine that the president s foes will use that against him by turning every statement that ken starr every made, every position he ever took 21 years ago and trying to use it to say that theyre applying a different standard today. In effect youre merging these two impeachments into one kind of, you know, twopart fight over the nature of our presidency and the nature of the constitutional system, and youre going to have a lot of flashback, i think, fighting going on not just about what the president has done this time, but the tlast president did who got impeached last time. As we try to look at this list of lawyers and devise a strategy how much is the p ths is definitely an are you kidding me kind of day, is the parallelism the point . Do they want to engage with what happened in 98 and 99. You listened to Alan Dershowitz, he claimed he would have made the same argument. He seems content to look back as he looks forward. Alan dershowitz did oppose impeachment last time. Hes opposing impeachment this tile. The facts of the allegations are different what president clinton was accused of and did is different than the what President Trump has done. You cant make them a parallel thing. Alan desh wits has been consistent saying he didnt think the allegations then add up to a high crime and misdemeanor. For those like ken starr who took a different position 21 years ago, theyre going to have to reconcile that. Theyre going to have to explain why that was impeachable and this was not. For a lot of democrats, theyll say its the other way around. These allegations are far more about what the framers had in mind in the corruption of the office itself and what president clinton did, while perhaps a statutory crime, was not about the use of his office, it was about lying under oath about sex. The republicans and i think ken starr will make the opposite argument. Theyll make the argument that president clinton was accused of a specific crime, a felony ask that of course has to be impeachable, whereas theres no specific crime that has been e alleged against President Trump even though hes been accused of misusing his office. Rather than diminishing that argument, theyre bringing it forward into the well the senates going to be front and Center Starting on tuesday. Peter, its a deeply reported piece and something you do talked to a lot of lawyers who have worked with ken starr, if you could summarize what they had to say, their level of surprise at this appointment, thatd be great. Even some of his own former lieutenants were surprised by this. Obviously many of them still admire him, think highly of him, think hes a very principled lawyer and think he did the right thing 21 years ago. There are some who think it was a mistake for him or at least a mistake for President Trump to bring him in this time. It does sort of import the last battle into this battle, and there will be moments, for instance, they will point out that judge starr 21 years ago fought against the president who tried to assert privileges to avoid testimony and document production, and this time hes representing a president who has refused to provide documents and is citing privileges to avoid testimony. He will have to answer that question why one is different, why hes taking a different position this time. Even some of his own staff think it was kind of a surprising move on his part to join this team. All right, the chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times, peter baker, thank you very much as always. I appreciate it. Coming up, a gun rights rally that has an entire state on edge. Thousands of women with metastatic Breast Cancer, which is Breast Cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. 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We customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need [ grunting ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Welcome back, im david gura. Days before the senate trial is set to kbbegin house indicates have released another round of evidence from lev parnas. He of course is an indicted associate of Rudy Giuliani. The new documents reveal more on the alleged surveillance of former ambassador Marie Yovanovitch and on additional connections between lev parnas and republican congressman devin nunes, through one of the congressmans top aides, a guy by the name of david harvey. Parnas made a series of new allegations against the president and members of Donald Trumps administration in an exclusive interview with my colleague Rachel Maddow. President trump knew exactly what was going on. He was aware of all of my movements. He i wouldnt do anything without the consent of Rudy Giuliani or the president. It was never about corruption. It was never it was strictly about the burisma, which included hunter biden and joe biden. Do you know if Vice President pence was aware that that was the quid pro quo, that that was the trade, and that that in fact is whey hy his inaugural visit called off. Im going to use a famous quote by mr. Sutherland, everybody was in the loop. Do you believe part of the motivation to get rid of ambassador yovanovitch was because she was in the way to get the government of ukraine to announce investigations of joe biden . That was the only motivation. That was the only motivation . There was no other motivation. To the latest trove of documents, here to help us make sense of it, ken dilanian, a National Security and intelligence correspondent for nbc news. Youve been looking through all of this, theres the photographs first but electronic evidence as well. What stands out to you from this, which is a pretty extraordinary amount of evidence . It sure is, david. Look, we first have to take into account that this is a man under indictment clearly trying to save his own skin. But even given all that and including the documents that were presented, i think he moves the ball forward in three major areas. One is you saw there he ties President Trump more closely to what was essentially a conspiracy to use the mechanisms of government to help President Trump politically, and thats what democrats say was an abuse of office. More than just saying President Trump knew what we were doing, he described overhearing President Trump on the phone with his lawyer Rudy Giuliani. Thats important firsthand testimony that he conceivably could give to a senate trial if they would have him. Secondly, he broadens the conspiracy. He implicates other people, including former Energy Secretary rick perry and william barr, the attorney general, and mike pence the Vice President , all three of whom have denied knowing anything about this alleged conspiracy. And lastly, and this may be the most serious element here, david, is the notion that he, parnas, or others were involved in any kind of surveillance of a sitting u. S. Ambassador in ukraine would be stunning and would be a serious matter, potentially a crime, and mike pompeo, the secretary of state said last week he is ordering an investigation of this, and its inconceivable that diplomatic security, which protects ambassadors wouldnt be looking closely at this, and we know that the fbi visited one person who said he was involved. Now, we dont know yet whether this was real surveillance or whether these guys were just puffing, but if it was its a serious matter. Got the state department looking into that, you have ukraine looking into that as well. Ken, i think a big question here is what becomes of this evidence . You go back to that interview Rachel Maddow did, the lawyer and lev parnas said there was a huge motivating factor to do this quickly, that was to get this evidence included with the arm articles of impeachment as they made their way over to the senate side ahead of this trial. Any sense of what role this is going to play come tuesday as the week moves on and we get to the nittygritty of this impeachment trial . This evidence has been in the Public Domain for several days, and we havent seen politically any movement on the republican side of the senate, anybody seeming to r mobe more open min about whether this is going to affect their view of whether they should remove donald trump from office. I think what it does is it adds to the momentum on the question of witnesses. Thats a closer call, and they only need 51 votes to get witnesses, and regular people who were just tuning in to this would look at this and say how could they not consider this evidence, and the other questions that it raises because, you know, wouldnt you want to talk to rick perry . Wouldnt you want to talk to mike pence, certainly john bolton, mick mulvaney, these people are key fact witnesses, and we have not heard from them, david. Ken dilanian, my colleague in washington, d. C. , i really appreciate your time. He covers National Security and intelligence for us here at nbc news. When we come back, much more on impeachment. The big story of the day as we approach those deadlines looming large for impeachment managers and the president s legal team, following all the latest developments as we piece together the strategy President Trump is likely to use in his trial. Were also going to speak with someone whos been an impeachment juror before. 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Some things are too important to do yourself. Get customized security with 24 7 monitoring from xfinity home. Awarded the best professionally installed system by cnet. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Call, click or visit a store today. Welcome back on this busy saturday, im david gura at msnbc hb msn msnbc headquarters in new york. Queen elizabeth has released a formal statement on the future duties of prince harry and Meghan Markle. Keir simmons has the latest from london. He was on the Conference Call during which all of this was announced. We spent time in the last hour talking about the financial implications of the deal that was hatched among the royal family. Help us understand the broader significance here, how much that is in the process, being debated as this couple prepares to leave the United Kingdom to spend most of their years i gather in north america. Yeah, its evening here, so you know, lots of british folks will be doing what they do on a saturday night, watching television, relaxing, enjoying themselves. I think the implications may take some time to really register, but this is a moment in my view that echoes princess diana, harrys mothers break with the royal family, even echoes king edwards abdication, and removal from the royal family with, of course, his american wife because this is one of the most popular members of the royal family. A young man who the world has watched as he has gone through such Turbulent Times and such triumph, that moment just that one moment of the 12yearold prince harry walking behind his moms coffin, the moment that he himself described as just so painful. Weve seen him serving in the British Military in afghanistan and his enthusiasm for that service. Weve seen him giggling with his grandmother, the queen, and the two of them how much they enjoy each others company. Hes woven into the fabric of royal life, and what this announcement means is that together with the duchess of sussex, meghan, the two of them are leaving, frankly. They are leaving to spend the majority of their time were now told in north america. Thats very different from just a few weeks ago when it was said that they would split their time between the two places. Were told that they will keep frog mmore cottage, their residence in Windsor Castle, theyll pay back the money for the refurbishment of that, they wont take british tax money. At the same time, theyll be able to do any deals they want to do as long as they dont embarrass the queen, and that i think, opens the prospect for extraordinary potential commercial deals between prince harry and meghan, and frankly, any sponsor commercial entity they want to get into bed with, if you like. Keir simmons my colleague in london, a huge moment in British Royal history, thank you very much for the update as this continues to be a moving story, a breaking story out of london. Now we move to washington. Critical deadlines approach in the historic impeachment trial of President Trump. The house managers have about two hours to finalize a brief for the u. S. Senate. That document is expected to outline the case for the president to be convicted. That deadline is quickly followed by another deadline for President Trumps legal team. His lawyers have until 6 00 p. M. Eastern time to respond to the formal summons that was issued by senators thursday night. The president s legal team also has a monday noon deadline to finish their brief outlining how they plan to defend their client, and then of course on tuesday it is the start of the impeachment trial of donald john trump. We go first here to capitol hill, my colleague Leanne Caldwell is following all the action there. There is action there. I dont want to bury that. There are also senators who have gone back to their districts. Senator Lisa Murkowski is one of them. Susan collins is another. Shes making comments on what shed like to see out of the trial. Youre lending an ear to all of these conversations, all of these press availabilities. What have you heard this afternoon . What does it tell us about the shape, the form of that trial set to begin on tuesday . Lisa murkowski and Susan Collins and also mitt romney and lamar alexander, a retiring senate as well, have all indicated an openness to perhaps bring in new witnesses into this senate trial, perhaps be open to new documents, new evidence as well, and senator collins and myrurkowski are in their home states. Theyre talking to the press today, and this is what lisa myrurkowski had to say. We will of we will have an opportunity at the end of the presentation by the case managers, at the end of the questioning by the senators, well have an opportunity then to vote aye or nay as to whether or not we as members of the senate wish to receive further information. And that further information can be subpoenaing witnesses, it can be additional documentation. It can be depositions. So notice how murkowski is talking about her openness to witnesses, but a vote at the end later on in the process. She has not moved from that position. Thats something that shes had over the last couple of weeks, so she has not changed from that position here today, and the reason thats important is because democrats are insisting that an agreement on witnesses be come to at the very beginning of this process before this trial even opens, but it doesnt look like they have the votes for that. The republicans are in the majority and all of these senators who are even contemplating it dont look like theyre going to support democrats at this stage on this issue of witnesses, david. Interesting where these conversations are taking place, still a debate, if there will be a closed session meeting of the u. S. Senate as this unfolds, leanne, thank you very much for the reporting. We know the names now of President Trumps legal team. That list includes ken starr, the former independent counsel who led the effort to impeach bill clinton, and Alan Dershowitz who taught at Harvard Law School for several decadede. Alan dershowitz said he was not a fullfledged member of the president s defense team, but his position seemed to evolve as the day went on. I think it overstates it to say im a member of the trump team. I was asked to present the constitutional argument that i would have are presented had Hillary Clinton been elected and had she been impeached. I am part of the legal team with a very specialized role. My specialized role is to present the constitutional argument, the same argument i would present if Hillary Clinton had been elected and she were being impeached. And the white house confirming his role in a press statement. Joining me is paul butler, professor at georgetown law. He was a former federal prosecutor. He is an msnbc legal analyst. Great to see you. You look at this list of names, and one wonders what the cohesive legal strategy is going to be. These are folks who do a lot on tv, no secret that folk who are on tv tend to have big egos. How do you write that into something, a distinct legal strategy if you have Alan Dershowitz, Pat Cipollone what does that strategy look like . Different lawyers have different roles. Part of what starr and dershowitz will do is go on fox news, say red meat to the base say this is outrageous. Another part is that they will make constitutional arguments. They will say that even if everything that the president is accused of doing he did, it doesnt reach the level of impeachment. He should not be removed from office. Theyll say its not treason. Its not bribery, and its not a high crime or misdemeanor. Now, thats wrong as a matter of law and constitutional interpretation, but for senators who are looking for cover for an excuse not to remove him from office, they may use the kind of gravita gravitas of starr, a former federal judge, Alan Dershowitz, a mer tis professor at harvard. Youve lived through past trials, what kind of speciexper matters for a lawyer whos going to be making this case . When i talk to lawyers who have experience working in washington, d. C. , i say tell me about Pat Cipollone what do you know about him . Hes not something a lot of people know a whole lot about. He is the white House Counsel and now one of the mens leading the president s defense here in the impeachment trial. How important is how relevant is trial experience in an impeachment trial . Well, its relevant when there are witnesses and when theres evidence. We have a bizarre situation now where we dont know whether for one of the most important decisions the United States senate has ever made, whether theyre actually going to hear real witnesses or consider volumes of evidence that are crucial to its determination that are not part of the official record. New stuff comes out every day, but if it is to the extent that it is like a regular trial, again, one defense a sub text is that whats the big deal . Look, weve got an election coming up in 11 month. This is trump being trump, and so the role of the house managers will be to say this is about National Security. This is about a president who if he is allowed to use the power of his office for his own personal benefit, his own political benefit, stop at nothing. The message of him not being removed from office will be that he can do whatever he wants, and that is a threat to the United States. Quickly here, paul, many people, many lawyers have been in this position, im sure, theyre trying to argue the best they can, and theyve got a client who might be speaking out, being bombastic, doing his own thing. Youve got to please the client, and you also have to argue the case as best you can. With this particular client, i imagine that is an acute difficulty a lot of these lawyers are going to face . Although, again, lots of things about representing donald trump it turns out are like representing any old criminal defendant. A lot of them think they know better than the lawyer. A lot of them want to talk about the case even when the lawyer says no. Now, because hes the president of the United States, again, he might have a little bit more say than most, and hes got political responsibilities in addition to being the leader of the free world, so all of these have to be negotiated by his dream team, and he needs a dream team. All right, is it one would you say . Id say in terms of the kind of lawyers he needs, hes got he does have a good team, so again, thats something that the democrats should not take for granted. Starr and dershowitz, theyre not Rudy Giuliani. Theyre real lawyers who are Effective Advocates for their client. Paul butler, great to see you as always. The impeachment trial will have the four u. S. Senators running for president pulling double duty, with just 16 days to go until the Iowa Caucuses, former Vice President joe biden, wont have to rush back and forth to washington. He faces his own challenges as the impeachment trial could cast an uncomfortable spotlight on him and his family. Nbcs mike memoli is traveling with the former Vice President. He joins me live from indianola, how does the campaign say theyre going to navigate and negotiate all of this . This is an opportunity for the candidate, for joe biden as som somsome of his competitors are going to be making their way back and forth. Certainly youre right about that, abby finken hour is introducing the former Vice President right now, so im doing my best to trying to avoid risking the ire of the audience here behind me, yeah, of course, the biden campaign, they do have an opportunity here with some of their top rivals tied up in washington for that impeachment tria trial. Biden Campaign Adviser telling me, listen, they can bring all the surrogates they want to try to fill the void while theyre in washington, nothing compares to having the candidate make that pitch directly. We cant lose sight of the fact that yes, joe bidens name is in one of those articles of impeachment, and hes very much tied up in these negotiations between republicans and democrats in the senate about witnesses, whether hunter biden or would likely fight one. They believe the only relevant witnesses are those who are witnesses to President Trumps crimes. As far as the Vice President himself, we havent had a chance to ask him these questions directly. Hes sticking to his closing message here, its very much about him being the most electable democrat. We heard it from him earlier today at an education forum. Lets take a little bit of that sound for you. Unless we beat donald trump, and im going to beat donald trump if im your nominee. Im going to do one more thing. Im going to bring along senators and house members and people up and down the line because we need to have it all the way across our state legislatures. Reporter and thats exactly the reason abby finkenhour is introducing him. Theyve been pressing that argument in the closing days and weeks in iowa. Not only is joe biden the best democrat in the polls to take on donald trump head to head, but hes more likely to be Strong Enough at the top of the ticket to carry democrats to creep contr keep control of the house. This is a candidate who wants to be seen as the presumptive nominee, hes been a front runner and he is somebody who is willing to engage and has engaged in speculation about who his running mate might be. He sat down with the Dallas Morning News and our local affiliate in dallas. Hed spoken to beto orourke, the former congressman and former secretary Julian Castro as well. What do you read into that, him wading into these waters . My read on the Vice President s answer there is hes being polite. I think its more likely than not that the former Vice President is going to look to choose a female running mate. He said so publicly in other settings including here in iowa. Hes floated the name of two New Hampshire senators as running mates. He was posed with the question about whether he would consider those two texans who were former candidates in the race. He said of course id consider them. All indications are hes more likely to be looking for a family as the number two on the ticket. Mike memoli from indian ola, iowa. What an impeachment trial looks like and how it works, a former juror from the clinton impeachment trial is going to join me next to give his perspective on precedent and what the atmosphere is likely to be like when that trial comes to order on tuesday. Like when thao order on tuesday and save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair. Com mom vo we got a subaru to give him some ato reconnect and be together. 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Lawmakers were sworn in thursday by chief Justice John Roberts who asked the senators to solemnly swear to do impartial justice according to the constitution and laws. How seriously they took that oath, a pledge only taken by senators two other times in our history, ask a former senator from north dakota about that. He was a juror during the clinton impeachment trial. Hes also the author of the new book the girl in the photograph the true story of a native american child lost and found in america. Senator, thank you very much for being here, and i wonder if we can just start with your history, what it was like to take that oath when you did, and the emotion, the seriousness of this undertaking by the senate. Its a pretty solemn time, i have a lot of memories of that trial, but not pleasant memories. No one runs for office in the congress, the senate and the house so they can be a juror in an impeachment trial. What happened on the clinton impeachment trial, ken starr spent i think 80 million on the investigation for three and a half years on white water and travel gate, and he finally had the president charged with a, you know, it was about sex and about lying about sex, but the fact is we knew almost everything going into this trial, and so theres a circumstance where senators are not allowed to speak. This trial started with senators on their desk not speaking. We already agreed how the trial was going to be held. Then there began the presentations by the president s counsel and also by those that came to prosecute the impeachment. So you know, it started right away in a circumstance where 100 senators sat in a room and really no speaking at all. I dont think thats going to be the case i next tuesday, by the way. Its something thats being hammered out, whether there will be a meeting in closed session. That is something so fundamentally different this time around. The level of discourse among democrat and republican members of the United States senate and how deleterious is that in your estimation . There is no dialogue here, no robust institutional dialogue among both parties . Its very strange. Its become so tribal as you know. Senator mcconnell has not yet shared with democrats how he intends to move this trial ahead, and thats why i expect on tuesday, i assume there will be some agitation, perhaps some votes, perhaps some debate on tuesday about the conditions of moving this trial and because theyve not been shared with democrats, but you know, its a case i think everyone in that chamber, these are talented men and women. They love their country. They want our country to do well, and yet here they are as jurors, and theyre jurors at a time when politics has become much more tribal. Theres much more rancid partisanship than there used to be. Its not as if they dislike each other. Its just that, you know, theyre off in a corner and the question is whose side are you on . Which caucus are you with . Because you cant go in the middle and do something outside of your caucus interest is. Thats too bad, thats not the right way to do things. This is a moment to look to history. Were certainly doing that. I want to get your reaction taking that a bit further here, the president announcing that ken starr is going to be one of his lawyers. How did you react to that having the experience you did going through this in 98 and 99. The two he announced. Theres a lot of baggage there. I was very surprised that he announced that ken starr is going to be one of the lawyers in the well of the chamber, i guess, making the case, so hell be making the case of course defending President Trump. But its the whole situation is pretty strange to me. You know, its pretty clear that what the president did, what President Trump did was prevent information being documents from being allowed to go to the house to those that were working on impeachment. He prevented witnesses to come, so, you know, while they made the case and they sent the impeachment resolution to the senate, theres so much that is not yet known, and i would also say this, it needs to be known for the purpose of those in the chamber who r are voting about whether to remove this president , but it also needs to be known by the American People. That information needs to be made available to all of the American People. What did this president do . What do these witnesses say that he did . Does it really undermine our National Interests for his own personal political interests . Well see what happens now with respect to witnesses at this trial. But i think there should be witnesses. Former senator, current author byron dorgan, appreciate your time and perspective as well. Thank you, david. Up next, a major winter storm is hammering parts of the midwest with blizzard conditions, and its threatening to bring snow, ice, even flooding to parts of the northeast. The latest forecast straight ahead on msnbc. Tracfone lets you keep your leftover data each month. Unlimited carryover data 20 bucks. What are you doing . I want to ask you about your data. Oh, i thought you said dating. This is your wakeup call, people. The new tracfone wireless. Now youre in control. The new tracfone wireless. Ive always loved and im still going for my best, even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. So if theres a better treatment than warfarin, ill go for that. Eliquis. Eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. Plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. Eliquis is fdaapproved and has both. Whats next . Sharing my roots. Dont stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Eliquis, the number one cardiologistprescribed blood thinner. Ask your doctor if eliquis is whats next for you. Iowa already at the center of a political storm. Now all that cam paining may be discorrupted by a dangerous disrupted by a dangerous winter storm. Blizzard warnings in effect in 21 counties of the Hawkeye State until 6 00 this evening. As of this morning, more than half the country was under weather alerts. The National Weather service describing it as a sprawling snow event which has created treacherous conditions on the roads and in the sky s. Nbc news meteorologist janessa webb joins us from the weather center. There was some snow here in new york a little while ago. Right now were seeing kind of a lull in the weather pattern for new york city. I promise you thats going to pick up once again, but this storm system is packing a punch that has spread across the upper midwest to the midwest currently. It has transitioned to more rain across areas of cincinnati to columbus, more to snow for the northeast as we see temperatures continue to drop. Now, compared to this morning and earlier today, these Winter Weather alerts have really backed off in the last hour. 64 million still under these alerts and a blizzard warning going to be lasting for a few more hours across the dakotas where theyve already seen about ten inches of snow. So timing is very vital with this system. The saving grace with this storm, its moving fairly quickly, so by tomorrow were really going to start to dry out. But could see another inch to a half an inch for new york city. The Higher Elevations from Northern New England to interior new york up to six inches, and behind the storm system is that lake enhanced snow. So across the poconos six to eight inches, lesser accumulation well to the south of the northeast. So things are going to start to clear up, but man, we have seen pretty much everything with this storm system. Good thing thats making its way offshore. Thank you so much for the update. Thousands braved the cold across the country for the Fourth Annual womens march. While crowds were a bit smaller, organizers hope their message remains strong in 2020. Election issues were front and center with speakers focusing on climate change, immigration and reproduction rights. Demonstrations were scheduled in 187 cities across the country. European supporter of President Trump is now admitting to sending details about former ambassador Marie Yovanovitch to robert hyde. Hyde emerged as new faces in the impeachment trial against President Trump. Text messages released by the house show hyde, a candidate for congress in connecticut corresponding with Rudy Giuliani associate lev parnas. The messages suggest hyde was secretly surveilling u. S. Ambassador to ukraine Marie Yovanovitch. Hyde had named calway as the person who provided the surveillance information on yovanovitch. He now tells nbc news that he did provide details but they were not really surveilling the ambassador and that it was all quite, quote, ridiculous banter. Meanwhile, hyde is speaking out as well in an interview with the hartford current. I didnt think anything was real. Who would be surveilling a u. S. Ambassador, like who could do that. Like you cant do that. Im a landscaper. I got into the politic games in d. C. On a national level, i never imagined youd like be as jokers that youd meet at fundraisers that, you know, legit people were like rob, pull me aside. Stay away from these people. I never thought like anything they were saying was real. Just i thought it was all joking [ bleep ]. Joining me now is the Capital Bureau chief for the hartford current. He joins me by phone. Let me ask you sort of what you got out of this interview. There were things he would talk about. Things he would not. Whats robert hyde saying about the role he played in all of this . That is true. I mean, all those Text Messages were there, but hes basically saying essentially the whole thing was a joke or he said he wasnt involved in surveilling the ambassador at all, and, you know, its after the fact now, and hes kind of saying that they were kidding around. Which some people do not believe. Christopher keating let me ask you what hes been up to. There were stakeouts outside his house. You were fortunate to get the chance to sit down with him. Whats he been doing . Who has he been talking to . Right, hes been staying at a friends house. All the reporters have been hanging out outside his house. He hasnt been there at all. He told me he was staying at a friends house. Ive known him since last skrju. The reason why he spoke to me is that hes a political candidate in connecticut. Ive met him serl times, and i met him last july. He told me that was the reason he spoke to me. He is a political candidate. Youre using the present tense there. Thats important. You have the head of the Connecticut Republican Party you remembering him to drop out of that race, not to seek election to the u. S. Congress. What did he say about his political fortunes, his rationale for staying in this race, in this congressional race . He claims he thinks he can win it. When i first met him, he said he was running against Richard Blumenthal for u. S. Senate, who a very wellknown figure in connecticut, and it would be a long shot. Then he switched to run for congressional race in the Fifth District in connecticut. Hes not getting out. Hes staying in the race. He claims that he can raise money, and hes not giving up. Christopher keating, weve seen this dance between lev parnas and the president , the president saying he doesnt know lev parnas, lev parnas claiming they did have interactions, producing photographic evidence of the fact they met with each other, had breakfast with each other and the like. What is robert hyde saying about the relationship he had with the president of the United States . He also has a ton of pictures with him, too. He said trump is a hard guy to talk to because hes so busy, but this guy hyde has pictures of himself with eric trump, ivanka trump, don jr. , the president himself. He says he does get along with him. Hes not best friends with him, but hes been to most of the places, maralago. He says he was he claims he was the number one customer at the trump hotel in washington, d. C. He claimed he stayed there three nights out of fiver on a regular basis. Theres something to put on a business card. Ill ask you about what interaction he has had if any with investigators or chairman adam schiff. Theres that other video thats circulating that he shot himself it seems when hes sitting on the couch weaving a conspiracy about the role adam schiff played in elevating him to this role in the spotlight. What does he say about the degree to which hes been talked to by the federal government about his role in all of hthis . The fbi went to his house in simila similar sims bury, connecticut. He told me he hasnt spoken to anyone with the fbi, anyone from the House Intelligence Committee or anyone connected with schiff, and i said these guys are obviously out looking for you. He was very concerned that people were looking for him. He didnt want anybody to know that he was at the State Capitol talking to me. The Capitol Bureau chief for the hartford current christopher keating, talking about the selfdescribed sims bury landscaper, i appreciate the time. The reporting as well. While robert hyde at least admitting knowing lev parnas, President Trump continues to claim he barely ever heard of the man no matter what the indicted Rudy Giuliani associate says. President trump knew exactly what was going on. He was aware of all of my movements. I wouldnt do anything without the consent of Rudy Giuliani or the president. I dont know him. I dont know parnas other than i guess they had pictures taken which i do with thousands of people including people today i didnt meet. I dont know him at all. Dont know what hes about, dont know where he comes from, know nothing about him. Doesnt matter what he said, hes trying to probably make a deal for himself. I dont even know who this man is other than i guess he attended fundraisers so i take a picture with him. Perhaps hes a fine man. Perhaps hes not. I dont know him. I never had a conversation that i remember with him. Joining me now is reuters White House Correspondent one jeff mason. Great to speak with you as always. Im going to quote back what the president said there once again, i dont know him at all. Dont know what hes about. Dont know where he comes from, know nothing about him. We have heard variations noon the on that theme time and time again from this president. How good is that defense as we watch the week mover on . Well, ting becomes a bit of a harder sell the more we hear from lev parnas and what hes been saying with regard to their interactions and to what President Trump knew or was aware of what he was doing in coordination with Rudy Giuliani in ukraine. That said, i think its also important to know and remember that lev parnas has been indicted, and so republicans certainly will throw some question marks up there about his credibility. So what i said there about this being a variation on a theme, we have heard him use this defense over and over again with other folks. This is something the president is prone to do . Yeah, it is. And you know, the president is also prone to say things that he thinks at the moment are right or that he likes to portray as right, which end up not being so. Thats something that we, you know, as journalists, its our job to follow up on that, and i think the meamerican public has also begun to realize that about President Trump as well, and that has applied to many different things, david, as you no doubt know. I want to pivot to the president s legal team, pam b bondi on the today show today talking about this. Her defense essentially was if youre a public figure like she was or President Trump is, you take a lot of photographs with people. How is this story, the lev parnas story complicated matters for that team as they await a deadline today, another one on monday to get materials to the u. S. Senate . I think its complicating it for them because its basically presenting new evidence and giving democrats more fodder to say we need to have witnesses in the senate trial. Theres more information, this information is trickling out on a daily basis, and a lot of it is now coming from him. So i think the question is spot on. It certainly has complicated things for them. That said as we referred to earlier, i think that the republicans and certainly the president and the white house will say this guy has no credibility, and you know, the president continues to believe and very forcefully so that he didnt do anything wrong and the things that he has been impeached for did not ruise to the level of impeachment. I think that that argument is one were going to hear next week regardless of what kind of new evidence comes from lev parnas or anyone else. Over the last hour and a half, ive mentioned Rudy Giuliani, an associate of Rudy Giuliani, somebody who knows Rudy Giuliani. We havent talked about the role he may or may not play here in the president s defense as we move to the senate trial. What can you tell us about that, the degree to which hes going to continue advising his client, the president of the United States as his trial begins. I dont think Rudy Giulianis going anywhere. I mean, his name is not on the list of Defense Attorneys who will be defending the president in the impeachment trial directly. He has been a surrogate for the president for some time. He has made clear that hes continuing to do work for the president on ukraine and on other issues as well, so i think that, you know, this president takes consult from people in his circle, from friends, and Rudy Giuliani will certainly continue to remain one of those people. All right, jeff mason, thank you very much. I appreciate the time as always. My pleasure, sir. Coming up here, senator Bernie Sanders back on the campaign trail today in New Hampshire. How he and his colleagues in the senate will navigate an impeachment trial and the caucuses and primaries to come. Made just for me. But i also want great taste. So i drink boost for women. New boost women with key nutrients to help support thyroid, bone, hair and skin health. All with great taste. New boost women. All with great taste. 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At liberty butchumal cut. Liberty biberty cut. Well dub it. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Giuliani will certainly continue senate will navigate an giuliani will certainly continue senate will navigate an continuing to follow breaking news out of london. Queen elizabeth a short time ago releasing a statement on the future roles of prince harry and Meghan Markle under a new agreement the couples will lose their titles of his and her Royal Highness and will no longer receive public funds for royal duties. They will pay back 3. 1 million in taxpayer money spent renovating their home in the United Kingdom. We are less than a month away from the first in the nation primary in New Hampshire, and the president s Senate Impeachment trial is putting a strain on some of the candidates schedules. Are you concerned about how this will affect your campaign . Yeah, i am. I would rather be in iowa today. Theres a caucus there in two and a half weeks. Id rather be in New Hampshire and in nevada and so forth. Well, senator Sanders Campaign says hell be going back and forth between the trail and impeachment proceedings in washington, d. C. During the coming weeks. The senator Elizabeth Warren prang to planning to do the same thing. My colleague is following the campaign. Let me ask you how theyre going to navigate all of this. There was a statement put out last night Bernie Sanders does intend to make an appearance in cedar falls on wednesday of next week, day two of that trial. Reporter thats exactly right. Hes still going to be on the campaign trail as the impeachment trial is going on. The plan is to have be in washington, d. C. By day and then come out to states like iowa and New Hampshire and have these voter interactions that hes having right now later in the afternoon. He was actually at a womens march in portsmouth, iowa just a couple of hours ago, and he would address this to the crowd. Listen to what he had to say. And youre going to see how dangerous this person is in the trial thats coming up this week. And by the way, i wish i could be back in New Hampshire and iowa, but i will be in washington doing my constitutional duty. [ cheers and applause ] reporter and you mentioned that he is going to have that rally on wednesday, but then another part of the strategy is using their team of surrogates, sanders has very active surrogates, very popular people who go out on the campaign trail and campaign for him. We saw a little hint of that yesterday in the state of minnesota, which was the first to cast their early voting primary ballot, and we saw e lan omar, one of his top endorsers there go out and hold a rally. Get people to come out. Youre going to see that scene happen all across the country as senator sanders is not able to go off on the campaign trail and will have to go back to d. C. And sit quietly on that floor. Thank you so much, appreciate the coverage. A state of emergency is in effect ahead of a controversial gun rally in virginia. Its expected to draw thousands, and the fbi has already made some arrests. Nbcs Geoff Bennett has more from richmond. Reporter tensions are running high in virginia after the arrests friday of four more suspected neonazis connected to what authorities call a white supremacist group. Earlier this week, the fbi arrested three other members of that same group, which calls itself the base. Who Officials Say had obtained weapons and discussed attending a progun rally in virginia next week. Virginia Governor Ralph Northam declaring a state of emergency. We have received credible intelligence from our Law Enforcement agencies that there are groups with malicious plans. Reporter the Virginia Supreme Court now upholding the governors decision to temporarily ban firearms on Capitol Grounds. One of the organizers of mondays rally pushing back. Weve done this since 2003, every year always peaceful, no the one incident. Reporter President Trump weighed in tweeting your Second Amendment is under very serious attack in the great commonwealth of virginia. Protesters are expected to voice their opposition to tougher gun laws being proposed in the state including requiring background checks on all firearms purchases, limiting handgun purchases to one per month, and letting localities ban guns from certain events and government buildings. Ahead of the rally northam says he fears a repeat of the deadly protests in charlottesville three years ago. Civil rights activist Heather Heyer killed while peacefully protesting. Heathers mother says she thinks the governor made the right move. I would rather see him take stricter measures than not enough. 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The Senate Impeachment trial of President Trump is set to begin on tuesday, but the rules of the trial are already in play. You saw the house managers presenting the articles to the senate and the sergeant at arms saying hear ye and warning senators to be silent under, quote, pain of imprisonment. Other unique rules include rule 19 which says no senator may engage in colloquy. Another nice way to say that senators have to keep quiet during the proceedings. Rule number six, senators can compel the attendance of witnesses. Those could include john bolton or hunter biden. Rule 23, motion to adjourn the trial can be adjournment for the day or can be a motion to adjourn the entire proceeding. The author of the new book unmaking the presidency, ben great to have you with us. Let me ask you about a line in the piece that stood out to me. The bottom line is this trial will be all about who can count to 51 and how active the chief justice wants to be in determining the default rulings if senators fail to do so. Who holds the cards here . The bottom line is that the person or the side that controls 51 votes gets the final say, and that tend to favor Mitch Mcconnell, because he has 53 members of his caucus. For democrats to prevail on things, they do need to flip depending on how a matter is postured either three or four republicans. That said, there are some interesting wrinkles. The most important of them is the attitude of the chief justice. Most motions, at least on evidence matters, when they come before the senate, the chief justice under the rules has the authority either to rule on them himself or to refer it to the senate on initial ruling. And so john roberts could say, hey, i rule this way and then the senate can overrule him by a 51vote majority, or he could simply refer it to them as an initial matter. So one really interesting question is, how active a role john roberts wants to play. A lot of people seem to assume and i confess im one of them, that he will want to play a minimalist role. But the rules do allow him to play a much more activist role if hes inclined to do that. I may have heard you screaming from the rooftop of the Brookings Institution on massachusetts avenue, the chief justice is not a judge. Why is that so important . So the chief justice in the context of the Senate Impeachment trial is the presiding officer of the senate. And one of the interesting things is that the roles that different people play in this role, except for the prosecutor and defense, are a little bit off from a normal trial. We sometimes refer to senators as jurors, right . But a juror in a trial doesnt get to make evidence rulings like what is admissible the way a senator collectively does here. And similarly the chief justice or the judge in a trial proceeding is not normally overrulable by the majority of the jurors. Theres a weird sort of trial process here in which the senate as a collective body is making both jury decisions, ie, its the finder of fact, but its also making legal decisions like what sort of evidence to admit and what kind of rules to follow, which are rulings we associate with the judges normally. Roberts is the presiding officer of the senate for purposes of these proceedings. Hes not really a judge. Hes kind of a manager of the process and kind of a who has a little bit of judge in him at least in as far as the senate doesnt want to overrule him on things. Ben, thank you very much. Appreciate the analysis. Quick update on something i spoke about just a few minutes ago. That is the blurring of that photograph on display at the National Archives. The National Archives out with a new statement just moments ago. National archives apologizes for alteration of womens march image. Ill read it from here. We made a mistake, the National Archive says. We are and have always been completely committed to reserving our Archival Holdings without alteration. We will immediately start a thorough review of our policy and procedures so this does not happen again. An update on that image you see there. Well be right back. T image you there. Well be right back. Make fitness routine with pure protein. High protein. Low sugar. Tastes great high protein. Low sugar. So good high protein. Low sugar. Mmmm, birthday cake pure protein bars. Try lemon cake. Thouwhich is Breast Cancer metastthat has spreadcer, to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. Ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr her2 metastatic Breast Cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. 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Comcast business is helping doctors provide care in whole new ways. All working with a new generation of technologies powered by our gigspeed network. Because beyond technology. There is human ingenuity. Every day, comcast business is helping businesses go beyond the expected. To do the extraordinary. Take your business beyond. That does it for me. Thank you very much for watching this hour of msnbc live. Ill be back next saturday at 2 00 p. M. Eastern time. Good saturday to all of you. Thanks for being with us. You know the stage is certainly set for a historic week in washington. Republicans, democrats working through the weekend as the impeachment trial of donald trump is set to begin in just three days. Now, the trump team is facing a deadline to respond to a senate summons. That deadline is tonight. Now, despite the looming trial, new evidence continues to come out. When we look at it, how might it impact the strategy for either party . An allout blitz in iowa remains. The pressure is on with just two weeks before the Iowa Caucuses especially for the senators who have to take a break from the Campaign Trial ail to take part the trial in washington, d. C. And the influence to have