the court does say that in the particular kicircumstances of h phillip was treated, his religious views didn't get the respect of the commission that initially ruled against him. he cites commission members that said appeared to be dismissive or hostile to jack phillip's religious views. the 13r50esupreme court this w marred as soon as the commission said those things. all the court decision today says is, because of the way jack phillips was treated below, he wins. but the decision also says, we're not expressing a view about the larger issue that made this case so interesting. which is, can other bakers, florists, people who print wedding invitations, who provide services, people who sing at weddings, play the organ, do the deejay services, all those businesses, can they refuse to serve same-sex couples?
has written all the important gay rights rulings here from the supreme court, including the 2015 ruling on same-sex marriage. with that in mind, he basically is saying, we have to keep the rights of gay people in mind, but we also have t gious interests seriously, too. if there is a larger ruling here, it is basically -- or a larger victory here, it is for vocates of religious freedom, who get a little bit of a boost, in telling the lower courts, you have to take them seriously. >> all right. pete, thanks very much. pete williams for us at the supreme court on this particular ruling. >> let's bring tom in. tom, what is your take on the ruling? >> pete is right. the court has dodged the broader question. i think that gay rights groups probably take a lot of solace. seven members of the supreme court, including alito, have said you must respect the rights of same-sex couples, endorsing the supreme court's earlier decision. but the real, real question that
was out there is, how much of this is really free speech, this writing on a cake, taking a photograph. supreme court says nothing abo that. i think the justices are sending a signal to the country. that is, be reasonable. respect the rights of gay couples, but also respect people's religious views. try to accommodate each other. that's what the justices themselves did. they came together in a sense, and are trying to get the country to do that. unfortunately, the fights are unevidentabu inevitable because the views are so strong on both sides. >> will this ruling be misinterpreted? at first blush -- >> it looks like a setback. >> they say, the gay couple lost, a knee-jerk reaction would not be, the supreme court came together and said, be reasonable. the knee-jerk reaction, i think, would be the opposite. >> you're right.
that's why justice kennedy's opinion, joined by some of the conservatives, leads with the principle of respecting same-sex couples. they want to reinforce that they believe in that. they aren't taking a step back from that. they want to make clear that they saw hostility to religion here, and that is another important principle. that's what brought the supreme court together. you have the liberal justices willing to endorse that principle, do not go against th that, religious views. >> interesting when you have a resolution like that, that is to some people, or maybe both sides, no particular resolution, one we've been waiting for for a long time. tom, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> absorbing this is about really reading it and being thoughtful about it. >> right. >> that's what's important. again, our first reaction to this, when i look at twitter -- >> setback for gay rights.
>> the first thing that tom said was, lgbt rights advocates should take solace with this. it is interesting. more interesting news. former president bill clinton speaking to nbc news abo the monica cllewinsky scandal. what he said when asked if he'd handle anything differently in the age of me too. >> it's a wow. we are keeping an eye on markets. up 200 this morning. remember, very strong jobs report on friday. clearly, we are still at full employment. things are even better. president trump this morning said it is a great time to look for a job. he hasn't mentioned wages. wage growth did go up, but it still continues to lag. the other thing causing market volatility, of course, is trade and the potential trade war on the horizon. stay with us. you're watching "velshi & ruhle." , but maybe not for people with rheumatoid arthritis. because there are options. like an "unjection™". xeljanz xr. a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough.
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we're getting out of here. you're welcome. run! holy! this is gonna be awesome. rated pg-13. welcome back to "velshi & ruhle." former president bill clinton is defending his handling of the monica lewinsky scandal. >> in an interview with nbc's craig melvin, president clinton said he wouldn't have done anything differently if he were president today, even in the age of me too. >> few days ago, in response to critics who suggested that you should have resigned in the wake of the lewinsky scandal, you said that you should not have. if you were president now, in 2018, with everything that's going on with the me too
movement, how would you have approached the accusations differently? >> well, i don't think it'd be an issue because people would be using the facts instead of the imagined facts. if the facts are the same today, i wouldn't. a lot of the facts have been conveniently omitted to make the story work. i think partly because they're ated that they got all these serious allegations against the current occupant of the oval office, and his voters don't seem to care. i think i did the right thing. i defended the constitution. >> you think this president has been given a pass with regards to the women that have accused him of sexual misconduct? >> i think -- no, but it hasn't gotten anything like the coverage you'd expect. >> looking back on what happened through the lens of me too now, do you think differently or feel more responsibility? >> no. i felt terrible then. i came to grips with it. >> did you ever apologize to her? >> yes. and nobody believes that i got
out of that for free. i left the white house $16 million in debt. but you, typically, have ignored gaping factsn this, and i bet you don't even know them. this was litigated 20 years ago. 2/3 of the american people sided with me. they were not insensitive of that. i had a sexual harassment policy when i was governor in the '80s. i had two women chiefs of staff when i was governor. women were overrepresented in the attorney general's office in the '70s. for their percentage in the bar. i have nothing but women leaders in my office since i left. you are giving one side and omitting fact facts. >> mr. presidents, i, i'm not tg to respect a side. >> you asked if i agree.
>> i asked if you apologized. >> i apologized to everybody in the world. >> you didn't apologize to her. >> i have not talked to her. >> do you feel you owe her an apology? >> i do not -- i have never talked to her. i did say publicly, on more than one occasion, that i was sorry. that's very different. the apology was public. >> you don't think a private apology is owed? >> you think president kennedy should have resigned? do you believe president johnson should have resign sesigresigne? someone should ask you the questions because of the way you formulate the questions. i dealt with it 20 years ago plus. the american people, 2/3 of them, stayed with me. i've tried to do a good job since then with my life and with my work. that's all i have to say to you. >> oh, my goodness. congressman from new york, who worked for president clinton in
the white house, i interviewed earlier and said, that was clearly not his best interest. one thing, when he said he apologized, but not to her, her being monica lewinsky, i believe that's the person craig melvin was asking about. to say that he left the white house $16 million in debt, i understand, clearly, he worked out of that hole and went on to be an extraordinarily successful -- and continued to be powerful. ms. lewinsky has obviously had to walk a very different path. >> right. let's continue this conversation with nbc national political corrpondent steve kornacki, who is working on a book about president clinton, and beth, who was there when this was being covered. he said he successfullye politically, but that's not the point of me too. that you have rehabilitated and
moved on and people believed you. it is that something happened for which there needs to be personal responsibility. i was a bit surprised by president clinton's answer, given how articulate he is and how long he's had to think about this. >> let's go back to 1998 when this was being litigated on the news and in court and by the special counsel. liberal feminists were with bill clinton then. they were like the sex police going after him. they were calling it a consensual relationship. ms. lewinsky was 23 years old, could make her own decisions, about whether or not she wanted to get involved in this relationship. basically, it was the republican congress, led by newt gingrich, who was on this crusade with starr to get rid of this guy. that's how the battlelines formed. 20 years later, the look at how consent works, the power dynamic of an employer over an employee is very, very different now.
as you said, ali, he has had 20 years to think about how the dynamics of this have changed. to think about it with thoughtfulness, with retrospection. i think what we saw there was the answer of a narcissist. >> what's so interesting, steve, you are our resident '90s expert. we talk all the time about how me too is taking a 2018 lens to problems from the '80s, the '90s, and times before that. but it is what we're doing in 2018. no one is saying, let's relitigate things, but this was a clear opportunity for the president to take some level of ownership and move the ball forward. instead, it seems like he is taking a page from donald trump's book, and they're on the same narrative. >> fascinating thing to me is you saw two things on display there in 2018 that were as vividly on display in 1998. number one, bill clinton, when certain subjects are raised, is a thin-skinned public figure.
he can be articulate at a convention, in front of a crowd, but especially members of the news media, they can get under his skin easily. we saw it there. the second thing is that his script has notnged on this subject. >> right. >> what you're getting in the moment is his reflex. you're getting his instinct. the subject is raised, and barely a mention of contrition, barely a mention of what he might have done wrong, and it was, what was done to him. >> reflexes have been forced to change in 2018. >> that's the thing. in 1998, he admitted to a grand jury to the affair of monica lewinsky. went on prime time television and gave a five-minute speech that was just like watching him right now. i have a private life. i am a victim. the apology -- he said he gave an apology to monica lewinsky in public. it came three weeks later.
the reason for the apology was, first, the report hit congress with allegations of impeachable offenses. he was facing impeachment. there were democrats, led by joe lieberman, a senator from connectiid, mr. president, what you told the country when you admitted the affair was not what we need. we need contrition from you. we need apology. he went to the national prayer breakfast, september 11th, 1998, that is when he apologized to monica lewinsky. it is an apology his critics said was given under duress. to listen to him 20 years later, you wonder if there was something to that. >> in a world in which, in bill clinton's mind, this has been litigated, and it's done. he said, 2/3 of americans backed me up on it. in a world that changed the last year, do these answers need to change? does bill clinton or anyone else who saw something like this litigated ten years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, do they need to have a more developed, more 2018 answer?
>> if they don't, can he be an effective surrogate for today's democratic party? >> he can. of course, he should rethink it, but he feels he is in the right and isn't going to. to your point about being an effective surrogate, he was a terrible surrogate in 2016 for his wife. she has paid for this far more than he ever did. remember, at the debate, one of the national debas, after the "access hollywood" tape came out, steve bannon invited women who had made accusations against bill clinton to the debate. hillary clinton was not in the position to condemn that or say anything about it because she lives with the history. she paid the political price for what happened in this century that bill clinton still is refusing to pay. >> remarkable. thanks to both of you. >> it could have been a moment for him. >> i agree. >> not saying it is an easy one. >> he is one of those americans who is equipped to have that kindarticulate. he has got public support, considering everything that happened.
could have been a moment. it was interesting. steve, thanks very much. look forward to your book. beth, thank you to you, as well. >> you can see more of craig melvin's stunning interview with president clinton at 1:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. president trump says he's got the aolute right to pardon himself in the mueller investigation, but what does the constitution say about that? >> what does the department of justice say? first, rescue operations are underway in guatemala after a volcano exploded near guatemala city yesterday, killing at least 25 people, injuring hundreds nearby. the volcano spewed thick, black smoke, ash, and lava on to homes and fields across three towns. it surprised communities that had not been ordered to evacuate. hundreds of rescue workers are searching for survivors and bodies. officials say entire villages are currently unaccounted for. teams are struggling to reach rural areas cut off by the eruption. more than 3,000 people have been evacuated from the area. we're going to continue to cover
this and more. you're watching "velshi & ruhle." why? because ali is back. good news there. george woke up in pain. but he has plans today. so he took aleve this morning. hey, dad. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. tylenol can't do that. aleve. all day strong. all day long. get 5 dollars off aleve back & muscle pain in this sunday's paper only.
welcome back to "velshi & ruhle." i want to start by making a point. possibly not the best point to make on my first day back after being here for a while, but stephanie, if i wanted to, i could take your phone, toss it on the floor, and crack the screen. this is stephanie's phone. i'm not going to do that because i'd get kicked aufd t eed off t maybe worse things. i could do it, but i won't, because i don't want to. now, i've told you that i'm not going to do this. then i'd get in trouble. >> but you're able to. if you so wanted to, you could do it. >> right. the net result is, you're probably going to want to take your phone back from me. >> you're right, i am. i don't want you to do that. >> that nonsense is the same -- i could do it, but i won't -- that the president and his lawyers keep using about pardons. here the rudy giulia here is rudy giuliani on sunday. >> he has no intention of pardonipardon ing himself, but not saying he couldn't. it would be answered by, that's what the constitution says.
if you want to change it, change it. the president of the united states, pardoning himself would just be unthinkable. and it would lead to probably an immediate impeachment. >> okay. don't worry. won't happen. >> could happen. has a right for it to happen, but it won't happen. >> if that was the case, why did they let it go to begin with? it was followed up this morning by the president declaring, quote, i have the absolute right to pardon myself, but why would i do that when i've done nothing wrong? he calls out the special counsel, saying, mueller's appointment is totally unconstitutional. sentiments the president's lawyers expressed in a lettero the special counsel's office earlier this year. is that me shouting out, i didn't rob a bank. >> crazy. >> why would you say it if you didn't do it? >> i've missed walking over here to explain the little things. >> i missed you, a velshi. >> i missed you. let's talk about this.
it is a little confusing. i want to dig into this letter. including some surprising points from the president's attorneys. many are clear attempts to head off mueller's team. the letter was sent to the special counsel's office in january. 20 pages long. it was authored by john dowd. he's since resigned. and jay sekulow. it covers michael flynn, who pled guilty, and james comey, whose testimony is credited with launching the special counsel's probe. first, the reach of presidential power. the president's lawyers tell the special counsel the president could, quote, if he wished, terminated the inquiry, or even exercise his pardon power. the legal team asserting the ident's authority over any federal investigation, saying, the president cannot obstruct justice. the lawyers also echo one of the president's favorite twitter themes, claiming, quote, corruption within the fbi and
department of justice, which appears to have led to the alleged russian collusion investigation. it is a turn, by the way, from legal language to language from the president's stump speeches and tweets, and likely to remind the special counsel for m trump's love of twitter and rallies to fire up supporters. going back to the legal arena, the president's lawyers put flatly, quote, as you know, under our system of government, the president is not readily available to be interviewed. continuing to assert the belief that a president cannot be subpoenaed. in case the mueller team is unclear on this point. the president's lawyers cite the documents and interviews of campaign staffers saying, quote, in light of the voluntary offerings, your office clearly lacks the requisite need to personally interview the president. why woneed to talk t him? you're talking to everybody else. you don't need a lawyer to
understand what the attorneys are saying here. joining us now, let's talk a little bit about this with "new yo" reporter michael submit. >> and former u.s. attorney, chuck rosenberg. michael, want to know what struck you about the letter when you first read it. for me, it was just more chaos created by the president on twitter, rudy giuliani doing so much media, and the letter. is this chaos that works for them? it sends us on these diversions, asking questions that seem unsense u non-sens non-sensible. if they can keep us on this through the mid-terms, it is a win. people in the country, as much as they care about the mueller investigation, they care about other things, and they might be happy. >> yeah, you raise a good point. the negotiations over an interview have been going on for
six months. you have to wonder, at what point bob mueller says, enough of this negotiations. i'm going to go ahead and th'd obviously set off a huge showdown in court. rudy giuliani saying this weekend that they would fight that. they would take it as far as they could, up to the supreme court. it would be something that would extend the investigation. when we went out to try to get this document several weeks ago, what we thought was in the document were new facts about the case. the president's lawyers telling mueller new things about what the president knew or did or did not do, in terms of the investigation. when we got the document, it was about an intellectual underpinnings of why the president's lawyers think he was okay to do the things he did. it was an illuminating look at the president's view of his executive power. that is so important. the justice department is within the executive branch, and the president, within his authority, has a lot of control over it.
that is the key question here. the president has talked at length about two big issues over the past years. certainly, privately, and at times, publicly. whether mueller d pard others, which is addressed in the letter. >> chuck, this business about the president being able to pardon himself, there is a doj opinion from the nixon era that says no. but we know the justice department in the invtigations have been able to subpoena certain things going back quite far into u.s. history. let's talk about this. i've been away for a couple of weeks. is it really clear that there's no ability to subpoena the president? >> no. in fact, ali, quite the opposite. first, welcome back. second, we have some precedent that august swrsuggests you can
the president. whether the president can pardon himself or whether mueller can subpoena the president is through litigation, right, not through talking heads or a advocacy letters. the subpoena question, we come close toring it in ways. one, in the nixon case, in the early '70s, the supreme court said there is no executive privilege that would protect documents that have been subpoenaed from the president. many years later, in the clinton v jones case , the court said that a president is sugsceptibl to being deposed in a case. neither of those precisely answers the question, but it gives us insight into how a court may think about it. my guess is you can subpoena a president. the president must answer the questions of the grand jury. >> chuck, if you can, at this point, why doesn't bob mueller just do it? while there's complete silence on bob mueller's side while he's
working and working overtime, it gives way for president trump and rudy giuliani to adopt the narrative and take us down all of these paths. why doesn't muep hammer andsay, i subpoena you? >> he might. i mooean, he might. i was a prosecutor, so i think i understand the thinking here. one of the reasons could be he's not ready. there are other things to do. other people he wants to talk to. other documents he needs to revi review. when he's ready to do it -- and i've worked for bob mueller -- he'll do it. he's not shy. it presupposes he gets permission to do that. there could be -- i don't know this -- but there could be an internal argument within the departnt of justice, whether it is appropriate to subpoena the president. it is certainly, i believe, lawful to subpoena the president. >> good to talk to you. michael schmidt from the "new york times" and chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official. thank you, guys.
president trump's global trade war taking a toll at home from the auto industry to the farms and the heartland. there's anxiety about the effects of trump's tariffs. we'll go live to iowa, where pork producers reportedly lost $500 million over trade wars alone. you're watching "velshi & ruhle" on msnbc. - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. - dad's got all the answers. - anncr: prevagen is now the number-one-selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. - she outsmarts me every single time. - checkmate! you wanna play again? - anncr: prevagen. healthier brain. better life.
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morning as a way to defending his own tariffs. writing, quote, china already charges a tax of 16% on soybeans. canada has all sorts of trade barriers on our agricultural products. not acceptable. in retaliation to trump's tariffs, china has already added penalties on a number of additional u.s. exports, including corn, wheat, tobacco, whisk whiskey, and cars. the auto industry is worried about the budding trade war. at first glance, trump's 25% tariff on imported steel and 10% tariff on imported aluminum, they seem like they won't be much of an issue. american automakers purchase most of their steel and aluminum domestically. but a car is 2/3 steel and aluminum. tariffs on even some of the thousands of imported components that make up a car can have a huge impact. when you consider all the little pieces that are typically imported down the supply chain, industry analysts estimate that
these tariffs will increase the price of cars by 1%. now, 1%, it might not sound like much. when it comes to big ticket purchases like vehicles, every dollar matters. the average price for a car at the beginning of this year was $32,237. it means the tariffs could rise the price of a to over $300. it is nothing to scoff at, especially at a time when auto sales are down from last year. to make matters worse, a cnbc report says president trump is considering an explicit 25 tariff on foreign made vehicles for national securreasons, of course. nbc's vaughn hilliard joins us from iowa. >> the farmers in iowa have concerns over the tariffs, as are many farmers with agriculture sold to other countries. what are you hearing? >> reporter: the immediate concern here in iowa farmers, where we spend the weekend, is
the immediate loss of profit. already, an economist tells us since china imposed the 25% two months ago, $560 million in profit in u.s. pork in iowa has been lost. 25% of pork here in the state is exported. really, when you're talking to the farmers, their main concern is the long-term impact. a lot of these are family farms. we' it's a fourth generation in iowa. another farmer, mark, is down in southern iowa. there are 480 small towns around state that rely on agriculture and associated jobs. where does that go for the families if they don't have open access markets? here's three fathers and farmers over the weekend. >> i have a 12-year-old son. he'd really like to farm. he has interests in the pigs, as well as the crop side.
i can't expect him to come and do it for nothing or lose money every year doing that. >> the united states finds itself in a trade war right now. you're at the center of that. how concerned are you about your family farm's future so? >> i'm very concerned. agriculture is the tip of the spear. we are the front of retaliation. >> reporter: you are four kids. >> i do. >> reporter: are you confident they're going to want to take over the farm someday? >> i am not. i don't know if anybody wants to do it in the future. it's tough. it's a tough business. >> reporter: these farmers, a lot who voted for trump, they say they feel vulnerable, and they're anxious. >> vaughn, thanks very much. vaughn hilliard for us in iowa. he is covering the effect. this is a widespread effect, and it is not clear who this is supposed to help. >> good on the president, that he is taking this head on. what we have seen with regard to trade in this country over the years has impacted large swaths
of the country. credit to the president for the political moxy to push this forward. the issue is, the rhetoric and the policy is going to hurt many of those people. >> it is legitimate to say the trade agreements need to be looked at and updated. nafta is very old. there are republicans to do it. it is ham fisted to simply impose the tariffs and hope you can negotiate your way out of it. again, i've been away for two weeks. there was supposed to be a summit with kim jong-un of north korea when i was away. then there was not going to be a summit with kim jong-un of north korea. now, there is going to be a summit. when you're in the other part of the world, people know you're american and talk to you about this, it just seems disjointed and unsophisticated. >> to the average person out there, watching justin trudeau's interview, saying, mercy me, i'm offended, they're saying, i don't care if he's offended. i want the jobs back. >> they should care that he is
offended. that's where we get most of our energy from. >> yes. the question is, are we going to a constructive conversation -- >> no. >> -- with justin trudeau. >> not in this administration. >> our closest allies are canada, mexico and europe. >> when you shoot enough shots, the boats move away. >> people stop trustingyou. >> this is what it is. we're trying to get a deal with north korea, but we broke a deal with iran. trying to get better trade relations with others, but we take our closest partners, mexico and canada, and decide to impose tariffs without proper negotiation. it's not the way you do things. >> the president can say he is the master negotiator, the king of the art of the deal. >> he's not. >> being a master negotiator in business is far different than in politics. remember, this is somebody who has gone bankrupt more than four times. real estate is a business you can bluff. you cannot in what we're talking about. >> he wrote a book saying he is the art of the deal. i'm going to write a book saying i look like brad pitt. >> you look like brad pitt.
>> thank you. i was fishing for a compliment. when we return, we have to talk about the emotional send off for parkland's senior class. with the memory of february's mass shooting still raw. they graduated last night. in honor of the four students killed and should have been on the stage, too. now, students are announcing what is next in their plan to stop gun violence. first, a surprise for the parkland graduates. jimmy fallon showed up to give words of encouragement. >> when something feels hard, remember that it gets better. choose to move forward. don't let anything stop you. i met many of you earlier this year at the march for our lives in washington, d.c. it was an amazing day. thank you for your courage and your bravery. it took a whole lot more. that's why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy. everything.
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are excited to announce march for our lives road to change, a two-month summer tour around the country where we will go from city to city, state to state, making sure we're going t energy the passion we witnessed on march 24th, and turn it into action. >> the group's going to spend much of their summer making 75 stops across 20 states, promoting their gun law reform efforts and registering young people to vote. they're going to visit every congressional district in florida. >> i mean, that is some summer plan. joining us now, soon-to-be senior, jacqueline koren. it sounds like you are taking this message on the road and taking it to areas that are very supportive of gun ownership rights, aren't you? >> yeah, we really ortant t have that face-to-face connection with the people that disagree with you, because when you have that conference often times with people that think they disagree with you, that conversation then builds the -- breaks the wall
down, because they understand where you're coming from, we understand both our perspectives and agree on certain things, like universal background check. >> so who are you trying to get out there? are you taking young people who are going to be of the age to vote in 2018 in november, or are you specifically trying to get your view about what needs to be done with respect to gun control? >> we are traveling to every district to make sure every young person votes, whether they agree with us or not. we want people to understand the importance of their voice and their vote, because voter apathy in this country has been very, very poor in the past few decades. and we want to bring that back up. and we're going to places that both agree with us and disagree with us, so like i said, we can have those conversations. >> and if the goal is to change from apathy to enthusiasm, what do you want these people to do?
is >> every event we're organizing, we're going to be registering people to vote on every single stop we make. we're going to be starting in chicago at their ann pea march and registering kits to vote there. from there we're going to travel to the midwest to the west coast, then to the east coast, all types of communities, all types of communiti affected by gun violence or not, and we're going to be connecting with the young people there and connecting them with other kids from around the country. >> the passion is amazing. do you have hard number targets? at the end of the summer, are you looking to say we have gotten x amount of people to vote, and that's going to put us over the top? or is this just about a movement and a mission? >> honest, this is about registering as many people as possible. what we're doing here in parkland and around the nation is completely unprecedented. this has never been done by a group of young people before and i'm proud to stand with march
for our lives, and we don't have a number we're reaching towards. we're just trying to do the best possible thing we can and reach for the stars. >> jacqueline, congratulations for doing that. this is going to be one of the more important movements of your life, so thank you for your and your colleagues continuing to keep what happened on february 14th alive so that good can come with us. >> all right. well, here's a little bit of positive news. a new study finds thousands of breast cancer patient might be able to skip chemo therapy. the study finds 85% of women with early stage breast cancer could apovoid chemo therapy and take a hormone blocking drug instead. that's a big positive. but on the inside, i feel chronic, widespread pain. fibromyalgia may be invisible to others, but my pain is real. fibromyalgia is thought to be caused by overactive nerves.
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