Analysis and discussion of the days top stories and compelling issues from Lawrence ODonnell. Analysis and discussion of the days top stories and compelling issues from Lawrence ODonnell. Hes absolutely right about that. Nobody can be sure of anything. None of us can be sure of what to believe as of now, but how strange is it that that was Rudy Giulianis answer to this question. The meeting with the russians, how can you be sure if the president didnt know beforehand. Rudy giulianis answer to that was, nobody can be sure of anything. With Defense Lawyers like that, who needs prosecutors . So why Hasnt Donald Trump replaced his weak, Tv Defense Lawyer who is doing a terrible job of defending donald trump . Well, there are a few real possibilities and rational possibilities for that. One is that donald trump doesnt know what good lawyering looks like and sounds like. After all Michael Cohen was Donald Trumps lawyer for years. The same Michael Cohen who Rudy Giuliani now describes this way. The way is unethical. Absolutely nothing to do with evidence. Is Robert Mueller ever going to release his conflicts of interest with respect to President Trump . Including the fact that we had a very nasty and contentious Business Relationship . I turned him town to head the fbi one day before appointment to Special Counsel and comey is his close friend . This morning Rudy Giuliani was asked about the president s accusation that Robert Mueller has a Conflict Of Interest. How can the president make this claim and not support it . He doesnt have to. Whats the conflict . I cant tell you. Im not sure i know exactly what the conflict is. Thats it. Thats the best giuliani could do with his clients own line of defense. Now, im sparing you a bunch of high speed incoherent words that
Rudy Giuliani seems to me to make a certain sense if giuliani actually does have Nothing Better to say. If the evidence that he is aware of in this case gives him nothing else to say, it makes a certain sense that he talks as fast as he can, as if he went to that Kellyanne Conway school. I think the better answer for him ought to be him staying silent. If this is the best he can do, he is hurting his client. What he is saying really makes no sense. I read the transcript of that full interview, and its almost impossible to understand what point he was even trying to make. And i think as a prosecutor or as a defense lawyer, you quickly learn that sometimes the facts are just completely against you
and youre better off saying nothing. And in this case, thats what it is. But he also hasnt got the law on his side. When hes yelling that there is no crime, that also isnt true and this argument about whether the word is collusion or conspiracy or aiding or abetting is simply a question of terminology. Somehow the American Public picked up the word collusion. There is no crime of collusion in the statutes, but there is a crime of conspireing together, of agreeing together, of working together, of Aiding And Abetting. If you take criminal conduct, the hacking, and you use that material, you are part of that. And it doesnt matter if you are the gunman in a murder, when you go in to rob a bank and someone gets killed, if someone else pulled the trigger, you are still guilty of murder because you were part of the conspiracy. I would say that we have plenty of evidence of conspiracy here. What jill says about staying silent is absolutely true for
most of possible criminal suspects in their attorneyclient relationship. But a politician, as you know, is in a different situation. And politicians feel compelled to defend themselves publically at every stage of these kinds of processes and we have seen democrats in the past also find fault with prosecutors who were investigating them. We havent seen anything quite as noisy as this. But if giuliani has Nothing Better to say and if there is a political calculation by donald trump and Rudy Giuliani that someone has to be out there defending the president on tv, there is probably a better way for giuliani to do this. Just talk fast, dont make any sense, dont worry. Donald trumps voters voted for someone who doesnt make any sense. I think thats whats happening here is really that they dont have a case they
dont have a legal case, right . This whole debate about collusion, i mean, first, we should just point out donald trump said there was no collusion for a long time. Now giuliani is saying, oh, there was collusion but its just not illegal. Theyre really playing semantics games to give an argument to their base at this moment. What i think is really happening is that they dont have an argument for the prosecutor. They probably know the prosecutor has a pretty strong case of Aiding And Abetting a crime, conspiracy of a crime. Theyre not really disputing that. Giuliani is playing a semantic game about collusion itself, which no one has said the word collusion means a crime. Obviously Criminal Conspiracy is a crime. But hes playing these word games. I think what he really is trying to do and what donald trump has been doing this entire year is he believes he will skate free of this if republicans are
unable to act on any report of indictment offenses. And hes disciplining his troops and disciplining the Republican Party to attack mueller, to oppose to say everything is political, to make up this new argument that there is conflicts of interest, but they wont tell what you say the conflicts of interest are. So republicans will not act on a report. And that is why these elections coming up in 99 days are so vitally important, because donald trump is placing a bet that the Republican Party he could he could be found colluding or Criminal Conspiracy, abetting or even shooting somebody on fifth avenue and the Republican Party will do nothing about it. That is why we need checks and balances and democrats to take a house of congress for some accountability for this president. Lets take a look at some of the risks involved in the giuliani tv strategy of talking so fast. Today he revealed and it seemed to be by mistake that he believes rick gates, who has been indicted by the special prosecutor and is cooperating with the special prosecutor, was actually in a Meeting Strategizing how to handle the russian meeting. Lets listen to this. He stated there was a meeting two days before the meeting took place with donald jr. , jared, manafort and two others. Gates and one more person. Cohen also now says, because he says too much, that two days before he was in a meeting with roughly the same group of people, but not the president. Definitely not the president. In which they were talking about the strategy of the meeting with the russians. The people in that meeting deny it, the people we have been able to interview. The people we have not been able to interview have never said that about that meeting. Your reaction to that, harry . You know, it is a complete slip of the tongue by him. The only sort of use youre right. Its all been incoherent. Two big slip ups in the first. Thats the first revealing not just gates is there but the very existence of that other meeting. And then the whole trying to move the goal post on collusion, years of no collusion, no collusion and, oh, wait, whats collusion . It was incoherent and frenetic and you were looking for someone to cart him away and give him a sedative. I dont agree that its the best he can do. Even if they dont have much in substance, you can try to contrast with the manic and crass speaking of crass, how
about the moment of, mueller, stand up and be a man . He could at least speak with some dignity, some calm, make certain legal points. Even if youre chastising mueller, there is a way to do it that people might actually listen. This frenetic unhinged performance makes you think that nobody has any idea what theyre doing over there and the real lawyer in charge must be tearing his hair out listening to both trump and giuliani completely losing it on national tv. By the way, at least trumps tweets are all going to be admissible. Everything he says would come into court. Just misstep after misstep. And it seems that Rudy Giulianis calculation is that what worked for donald trump in
the campaign to eek out a win in the Electoral College would work here. I have to say for everyone on tv what part of the donald Trump Presidency has been dignified so far . Who associated with donald trump thinking the first job is to be dignified in their response on tv or anywhere else . But i think truly that Rudy Giuliani is just doing a kind of Carnival Barker experience here, experiment and trying to just throw sand in the air, muddy the waters, make people believe there is some response. Donald trump has been incredibly successful in getting a minority of the country to agree with him on some pretty wild claims. I think that is their strategy Going Forward, to just get their base to believe this whole thing is tainted. The one thing i would say,
though, is that this strategy will be much less successful because people saw themselves, the broad public saw themselves bowing down to putin. And this whole issue of russia was made really clear to the American People and public polls have shown stronger support even amongst republicans for the Mueller Probe and for finding out what happens. And thats why i think the white house is almost in this panic and giulianis performance is so panicked, particularly on the eve of the manafort trial. As to the question of Conflict Of Interest for mueller, the Rod Rosenstein said in testifying to congress that there is a process in the Justice Department for bringing conflicts of interest to them. Theyre open to it. You want to bring them a Conflict Of Interest, they will examine it. He said there are no conflicts of interests with Robert Mueller. And the notion that the president offered him or considered him for fbi director is unclear. We have never heard muellers side of that conversation. It could be that mueller went in there to explain to the president that he could not do it and possibly make some suggestions to him what who he should choose. We dont know what was in that conversation. Exactly. All of this is nonsense because there was a lot of discussion about potential Conflict Of Interest having to do with muellers golf Club Membership at a trump club. And some dispute about the fees. And that was resolved a long time ago. It was reviewed by the department of justice. There is no Conflict Of Interest. The president is simply repeating over and over again because it seems to have some effectiveness. He just keeps saying in the same way he says in collusion. And then hopes that his base will believe that, even though it isnt. He argues as he has done, that the facts are not there, that the law isnt there. And, you know, the truth is if the law is against you, argue the facts. If both are against you, you better plead guilty. And i think were getting to the point where we can see guilty very clearly. And i think he is now worried because i think he finally has seen all of the evidence that came from cohens office. And i think if there is any leaks coming, it is coming from them to get out ahead of this. They want to protect and sort of get the first word. It is a very basic tenant of Trial Advocacy that if there is something bad, get it out yourself on direct examination. Dont wait until cross. Thank you for starting us off tonight. Really appreciate it. When we come back, former Trump Campaign chairman Paul Manafort surrendered to robert
mueller on one side of his legal issues today. Thats next. And donald trump is threatening a government shut down over the trump wall, a government shut down that republicans fear. Dear greatgreat grandfather, you made moonshine in a backwoods still. Smuggled booze and dodged the law. Even when they brought you in, they could never hold you down. When i built my family tree and found you, i found my sense of adventure. I set off on a new life, a million miles away. Im heidi choiniere, and this is my ancestry story. Now with over 10 billion historical records, discover your story. Get started for free at ancestry. Com now im gonna tell my momma
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a frivolous lawsuit. A federal judge dismissed the lawsuit in april. Paul manafort filed a hopeless appeal to that decision. And today Paul Manafort finally dropped the appeal and dropped that case entirely. Today in a filing in the criminal case that will be heard in federal court in virginia, prosecutors say they can prove the former Trump Campaign chairman is guilty of tax and bank fraud. They say they can move that he earned more than 60 million working as a consultant on behalf of a russia backed Ukrainian Political Party and hid the money in offshore bank accounts. The New York Times reports that prosecutors claim that beginning in 2006 he did millions of in income that he received from the Ukrainian Government and the ukrainian oligarchs to promote a prorussian leader when he fled to russia after a popular
uprising in 2014. The funds dried up. They charged that mr. Manafort resorted to bank fraud to maintain his lifestyle. Rudy giuliani said this poses absolutely no threat to the information. He has no Information Incriminating of the president. I know that for a fact. They can squeeze him. Paul manafort does not know anything. Nor could it be possible that he did. He was with him for four months. Joining us now is the National Security and justice reporter for nbc news and harry is back with us. What could Paul Manafort possibly know in just four months with donald trump . Quite a lot, lawrence. I mean, he was the campaign adviser. It is not like he was a lowlevel position. Even the Campaign Volunteer new quite a bit about the ofgs of the campaign and how they worked in their social media strategy. So in this case, what Paul Manafort knows is interesting only if they can actually squeeze enough out of him. Giuliani is right insofar as this exact case that we will start hearing starting tomorrow does not have a lot to do with russia or the Trump Campaign. It has to do with Paul Manaforts work were a prorussian interest and his effort to cover up with that money was coming from later on. This will only tell us about what the president did or what Paul Manafort knows about the president if they can present enough information that Paul Manafort at this point way down the road would decide he wants to start cooperating in order to lessen his sentence. Listen to what donald trump during the campaign about Paul Manafort. Are there any ties between
particular, which ill get to in a minute. But manafort surely knows quite a bit. Hes at the center of the efforts to change the platform to make it a more proukraine. He is in the russia meeting. Hes in the leadin to the russia meeting we find out today. Hes in the thick of it. Its just thats not part of the case. The case does, however, have a detail which is after he goes belly up and he is deposed, he needs money and he promises this is going to be part of muellers proof, a banker in chicago that hell get him a job in the campaign if hell make a if the banker will give him a phony loan. So there is a sense in which manaforts conduct at trial gets into the thick of the campaign. But surely he knows quite a bit about russia and the campaign for another day. And julia, when the trial zeros in on exactly human forts needs interacted with the campaign as harry says, we dont know what the special prosecutor has there. There could be some real surprises in that testimony. Thats right, lawrence. I mean, one thing we have been doing in the past few weeks to get ready for this is to look at pieces of evidence that have been approved by the judge to see what can be exhibited at trial. Right now it is just detail upon detail of this very expansive Money Laundering scheme that Paul Manafort used. Everything from landscaping to what kind of properties he bought in new york and florida and also a lot about his character. Some of the characters that he worked with in ukraine. As we know tomorrow, its going to be moved up about an hour earlier. Jury selection will begin at 10 00 a. M. Eastern. But at 9 00 a. M. Eastern, the
judge will be hearing from counsel and particularly to hear from the defense who wants to limit the information that they can use on his relationships with ukraine. Really, they might be scared that with that much information, a jury could be convinced that anyone who would work with those characters isnt someone to be trusted. And of course at the end of all of this, as harry pointed out, it is not necessarily this case has a lot to do with russia, but in the broader context of the Mueller Probe, if he is convicted, that is another feather in Robert Muellers cap to show this is not a witch hunt. That there are substantial crimes that have been committed here. Thank you both for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it. Up next, what donald trump thinks he knows about the wall that republicans dont know and why republicans agree with democrats that a trump government shut down over the wall during the Reelection Campaign will help democrats. Come away with me barnabas
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i would be certainly willing to consider a shut down if we dont get proper border security. With the latest polling showing 58 disapprove of the president S Immigration policies, democrats believe a trump government shut down over the wall, which would occur about a month before the election would be good for the democrats. Republicans think the democrats are right about that. Last week paul ryan and Mitch Mcconnell thought they worked out a deal to avoid a government shut down and delay funding for a wall. As far as the wall is concerned, weve gotten some wall funding already underway. The president is willing to be patient to make sure we get what we need so that we could get that done. Is the funding of the border wall going to wait until after the midterm elections. Probably. So youre not worried about a government shut down . No, thats not going to happen. Now that the president has threatened a shut down at the height of the election campaign, republicans are very worried. Dont think it would be a
good idea, and i dont think it will be necessary. Democrats arent no one wins. I think the American People expect us to do our job and should. I think it bad politics for the Republican Party to shut the government party. Wed get blamed. So i prefer a deal that would be a win win rather than shutting the government down. Donald trump has never been in step, especially when he first announced his campaign for the wall when he was a candidate. In a new piece today, in a field of republicans who were trying to change the party to appeal to a rising hispanic electorate, trump was alone in speaking to Republican Voters who didnt want the party to remake itself, who wanted to be told that a wall could be built and things could go back to the way they were. Joining our discussion now is the editor at large of fox and host of the ezra klein show. His piece is entitled white
threat in a browning america. What does donald trump think he knows about the wall that the republicans we just heard from do not know about the wall. Two things. One is that donald trump believes you get your base out. He is not a persuasive politician. What he tries to do is tell people that he agrees with them. He tries to get people who feel ignored by the political system, who are angry particularly at the Republican Party to turn out to vote. One way donald trump talked about this before is he thinks a shut down might actually help him because hed have his base, his people activated, upset. Theyd be watching fox news, coming out to vote. Maybe. The other thing and this just goes to donald trump. This is a way in which Donald Trumps views are very authentic. Hes not kidding around. He really believes the border is insecure. He beliefs that america is being
overrun from countries that i will not use his term on the air. He is actually on the importance of the policy of it. And in your piece you talk about the linkage here of what caused what. There has been this common theory since thor her against of the trump vote, big enough vote to win the Electoral College that anxiety activated the resentment that was manifest in the Trump Campaign. In your piece you find plenty of evidence that racial resentment activated the economic anxiety, that the racial resentment came first and the people that harbored racial resentment had a higher level of economic anxiety. Im so glad you asked me about this, yeah. So a lot of this data. There had been a ton of studies, but a lot are coming here from a book called identity crisis,
which is a best look of Election Data from 2016. It comes out in two months. They have found this very convenient theory of the election. And the way it goes is this. Donald trump, youre not seeing in his a racist america. You are not seeing a white identity backlash. You are seeing a bad economy that makes people scared and makes him ready to pull back and blame others. All you need to add is some kind of combustible agent like donald trump and you get what we got in 2016. And the reason thats a reasonably convenient view is that it means we can fix it. We can fix the underlying thing in a way we can agree on. We just need to make the economy better. The problem is that just doesnt appear to be true. Racial Resentment Led how people voted in 2016, at least the ones that were changing their votes. One of the ways we know that is before 2012, before 2016 back when you were looking in 2007, if you looked at how resentful people were racially, it had no
connection to how they thought about the economy. So you had this thing happening where if you were more racially resentment you believed tun employment rate was worse than it was. You believed the economy was going in the wrong direction. And donald trump was one of these people. He was out there saying that the real Unemployment Rate was 42 . After donald trump won the election, the Economic Optimism of the most racially resentful flipped. This is not what you would expect if what was going on was an actual Economic Conditions problem. It is what you would expect if people were filtering their feelings about the economy through their feelings about whether or not their group is rising or falling. And it seems possible even by the evidence in your piece that the russians who were attacking our election process were actually more aware of this. You say there is a reason why when the russians wanted to sow division in the american
election they focussed their Social Media Trolling on americas racial divisions. Yeah. This has been reported widely. Usa today did a great analysis of this. If you look at the russian troll farms and bots, they were doing black lives matter trolling. They were trying to get into americas racial divisions. This is the thing. America pretends an innocence about its own racial past but racial present. We dont like to be told these are divisions. We dont like to be told about problems in our country. We want to believe we have all become color blind, that it is all just a completely easy going conversation about economic anxiety and politics as policymakers would have it. But we have these very, very deep cuts. We have a lot of trouble talking about them. But those who want to influence
our elections dont. Political consultants know how to do these things. We have seen for years, ads. People are trying to move our politics know how to activate it. Thank you very much for joining us. I really appreciate it. Thank you. And coming up, why does donald trump try to help Vladimir Putin every chance he seems to get . Thats coming up. The Obama Administration and nato allies after russia innexed crimea. This is why Donald Trumps attacks on nato that was attended by Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort possibly with Donald Trumps approval beforehand was about getting sanctions lifted. But nato is not lifting its sanctions on russia. So putin hopes to tear apart the relationship between nato and the United States and is trying every way he can to do that. Our next guest is former ambassador to russia, Michael Mcfaul, who donald trump was considering surrendering to
russian authorities when he was meeting with Vladimir Putin and possibly even discussed that. Today the president said he would meet with anyone, and that now includes anyone in iran. Ambassador mcfaul will join us next to discuss what all this means to the trumpputin relationship. My car smells good. Its these new freshfx car Air Fresheners from armor all. Each scent can create a different mood in my car. Like tranquil skies. Armor all, its easy to smell good. If your adventure. Keeps turning into unexpected bathroom trips. You may have overactive bladder, or oab. Ohhhh. Enough already we need to see a doctor. Ask your doctor about myrbetriq® mirabegron . It treats oab symptoms of urgency, frequency, and leakage. Its the first and only Oab Treatment in its class. Myrbetriq may increase blood pressure. Tell your doctor right away if you have trouble emptying your bladder or have a weak urine stream. Myrbetriq may cause serious allergic reactions. Like swelling of the face, lips, throat or tongue, or trouble breathing. If experienced, stop taking and tell your doctor right away. Myrbetriq may interact with other medicines. Tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems. Common side effects include increased blood pressure, common cold or flu symptoms,. Sinus irritation, dry mouth, urinary tract infection, bladder inflammation,. Back or joint pain, constipation, dizziness, and headache. Need some help managing your oab symptoms along the way . Ask your doctor if myrbetriq is right for you, and visit myrbetriq. Com to learn more. Its a hightech revolution in sleep. The new sleep number 360 smart bed. It intelligently senses your movement and automatically adjusts on each side to keep you both comfortable. And snoring . How smart is that . Smarter sleep. To help you lose your dad bod, train for that marathon, and wake up with the patience of a saint. The new sleep number 360 smart bed, from 999. Smarter sleep will change your life. But its tough to gete enough of their nutrients. New one a day with natures medley is the only complete multivitamin with antioxidants from one total serving of fruits and veggies try new one a day with natures medley. You willing to meet with the iran president and under what conditions . Have there been any discussions . I will meet with anybody. Do you have any preconditions for that meeting . No. If they want to meet ill meet. Any time they want. Any time they want. It is good for the country, good for them, good for us and good for the world. No preconditions. If they want to meet, ill meet. Joining our discussion now michael mcphaul. Your reaction to the president s willingness to meet with anybody including anybody in iran. Incredible. What can i say . It doesnt sound like the trump administrations policy towards iran. I recall a lot of preconditions that the secretary set out in a big speech he gave about iran. That is the way the president
likes to roll. He says whatever is on his mind and then they work it out later. As to the issues with Vladimir Putin and the n. A. T. O. Attacks that the president consistently goes out of his way to do, there was a hearing in the Foreign Relations committee in which the Secretary Of State was asked should we Pay Attention to what the president says or should we Pay Attention to Administration Policy . And mike pompeo kept pointing out the sanctions are in place. In effect he was saying do not listen to the words of the president of the United States, they have no meaning. Pretty incredible hearing. I dont remember a time in American History going back to the time i have worked on it or the time i have written about it because i used to write about earlier periods where you had such a disconnect between the president on the one hand and the administration on the other. That is why the secretary kept having to say policy and not the statements. He is wrong to say that the president s words dont matter. The president did tremendous damage to unity and the alliance when he was in europe and our credibility to defend our n. A. T. O. Allies is connected to what the president says. He did damage to our russia policy by all the lavishing praise he gave Vladimir Putin in helsinki. That sends a signal to Vladimir Putin that if i can work this guy behind the scenes i will be able to undermine the policies that Secretary Pompeo was talking about and in a couple of paces it looks like he may have succeeded. There is a report that u. S. Spy agencies are seeing signs that north korea is constructing new missiles at a factory that produced the countrys first Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles capable of reaching the United States according to officials familiar with the intelligence. If the north korean
negotiation i dont know what you call this thing, the approach lets call it the approach to north korea fails and fails as spectacularly as that article might indicate that it could, what does that mean to trump policy Going Forward . Well, all of these things are connected, actually. You just heard the president say i will meet with everybody. Meetings are good. That is not the way diplomacy works. Meetings are used to achieve ends. They are a means to concrete american National Security objectives. And previous president s, democrats and republicans, have always used them that way. What this president does is he has these meetings and then we dont know what the objectives have been achieved. I would say that was true in the north korean summit, the singapore summit. It was true in helsinki when he met with Vladimir Putin. I think his team needs to work
on that, to stop saying meetings are good but to use the meetings to achieve objectives and sometimes use other means including coercion and including not meeting. The president thinks diplomacy is all about his personal relationships with these autocrats. Its not. It is about advancing Americas National interests. Is it possible that the president s line of i will meet with anyone and meeting with kim jongun and now i will meet with anybody in iran, is something he believes will allow him, help him actually have future meetings with Vladimir Putin because he is the guy who will meet with anyone . Maybe. Its a great point. You know, he most certainly seems eager to meet with Vladimir Putin and this new offer to go to moscow means there will be no demonstrations against trump or putin. I wont be there because im not allowed to travel to russia. It will keep me out of the equation. He seems intent on that. I ask the simple question, are we better as a country, are our National Security interests better or worse after the helsinki summit . I dont know of a single individual who thinks we are now better off as a result of that meeting. And therefore i think that causes question. We should question the judgment of the president. Why are we so eager to have these meetings . What objective is being achieved . I cant see one. Former ambassador Michael Mcfaul thank you for joining us. Tonights last word is next. Hi how was your day . It was good. It was long. Lets fix it. Play connection by onerepublic. beep these days, my waves get lost in the ocean Seven Billion swimmers man im going through the motions sent up a flare need love and devotion trade it for some faces that ill never know notion
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