Statehouses across the country. The images on the left show the National Mall as it looked four years ago. Thousands of people filled the mall for President Trumps inauguration. But on the right, this is what it will look like on wednesday because its closed. Officials are asking everyone to stay home this year. And heres what the mayor of the district of columbia had to say about whats in store this week. I think this will be an inauguration unlike any other. I think it was already destined to be, given Covid Concerns and some of the limited seating in public access. But having our fellow americans storm the capitol in an attempt to overthrow the government certainly warrants heightened security. Also, newly released video from the new yorker shows the scene inside and outside the capitol during the insurrection on january 6th. Now were trying to be selective with what we show tonight, but you will get to see more of these dramatic scenes in a moment. Plus, well update how many people have been arrested and charged for taking part in the siege. Matter of fact, lets begin with that tonight here in washington, d. C. , with nbc political reporter Vaughn Hillyard. Vaughn, we understand a total of four people have been arrested near the capitol over the weekend. At least to the best of our knowledge. Thats correct. A fourth, this fourth individual, arrested just this afternoon, joshua, about a block from where we are. Now about 700 yards or so from the u. S. Capitol. This individual is a new mexico man who was taken into custody. Not only we are told for going too close to the secure perimeter here this evening, but also being involved on january 6th in the insurrection at the u. S. Capitol building. This was a man who not only took part in that invasion of the capitol but then about to return here, as he did, return to washington, d. C. , for this inauguration of joe biden. This upcoming wednesday. He said, blood will run out of the building. Referring to this upcoming inauguration. That man, again, is now in custody. But this is the enormity of what were talking about here. Well, there was an invasion of the u. S. Capitol a week and a half ago. There is now high alert for oneoff individuals here. There was no major demonstration seen in washington, d. C. , or anywhere across the country here today. But with the presence of 15,000 National Guardsmen working in conjunction with local and federal law enforcement, its now a matter of identifying these particular individuals. Many of whom took part in that insurrection. You know, we should note there are, joshua, now 116 arrests from that january 6th event. At the same time, there are still more than 300 open investigations from the video youll be taking a look at here tonight, there are clearly hundreds who are still not have yet to be identified and have not been arrested here. That is where this concern is. You can look at the perimeter. Its nearly double the perimeter of the 2017 inauguration just four years ago, but that is why here, you know, were just about 60 hours away from joe biden who has said he will still take that oath of office outside on the west front of the u. S. Capitol building. But that is why all this attention is on these four arrests so far. Two of those individuals being arrested for carrying unlicensed firearms along with ammunition. Again, here in washington, d. C. , you must have a license to carry a firearm and to get anywhere near these perimeter, of course, that is not permitted here. Were just 60 hours away from inauguration day. Joshua . Thank you, vaughn. Thats nbc political reporter Vaughn Hillyard starting us off tonight from just outside the capitol. Now lets get back to that dramatic new video released by the new yorker today that vaughn just mentioned. It shows the riots in more redale with crowds storming the capitol and fleeing moments later from tear gas, then you see many of them try to enter the capitol again. One guys yelling, thats all you got . This clip shows a group of people destroying gear from news crews including the associated press, slamming it on the ground, attempting to set it on fire. One man says, traitors to the guillotine. Another can be heard yelling, we are at war. Now, again, were trying to be measured in what we broadcast to you tonight, but this scene is worth watching. When the rioters reached the senate. Were here. Is this the senate . Where the [ bleep ] are they . Where are they . While were here, we might as well set up a government. Hey, looks like its safe, people. Lets take a seat. Nancy pelosi. Lets vote on some [ bleep ]. [ bleep ]. Wheres nancy . Treason treason treason treason protect your constitution . Defend your liberty defend your constitution defend your liberty defend your constitution thats just some of the new video from the new yorker this evening and it comes the same weekend as a lot of new polling on the riot and on the president. A survey from abc news and the Washington Post shows that 89 of americans say they oppose the attack. Seven in ten americans say President Trump bears at least some of the responsibility. But only 56 , a slim majority, says congress should remove mr. Trump and disqualify him from Holding Elected Office again. Contrast that with our latest nbc news wall street journal poll. President trump will leave office with a 43 approval rating. Its remained fairly consistent throughout his time in office. Even after he was impeached for the second time. 87 of republicans say they approve of his job performance. Joining us now to talk about that polling and the future of the gop is former rnc chairman Michael Steele whos also an msnbc political analyst. Sir, good evening. Good to see you. Hey, good to see you, man. What do you make of those poll numbers . Well, they actually are representative of what weve seen over the last four years and certainly what weve seen inside the gop at particular inflection points of crises. Instead of breaking ranks or creating a new approach to dealing with donald trump, the republicans tend to hunker down. They tend to stay fairly lockstep with him regardless of what he does. It is something that social scientists and political scientists will be examining for generations to understand exactly what was it about this man that required such a deep loyalty in the face of what weve just seen two weeks ago, an insurrection that he inspired. So, im not surprised by the polling at all. Im not surprised that a vast majority of americans are appalled by what happened and are probably very happy to see donald trump go. But we should not also be surprised that 87 of selfidentified republicans or conservatives still stand with donald trump. I wonder what you really make of the poll numbers. I know when youre biting your tongue. I can see the blood coming out the corner of your mouth especially in light of the future of the party, the incoming Biden Administration, democrats having the house, taking the senate, and a lot of talk about what the future of the party may be. I know its no secret that you are not a fan of donald trump but in terms of what these numbers say about the future of a party that you fought so hard for, like, i remember last time you were on, i think it was two appearances ago, what you should do if someone comes in your house and tries to kick you out of your own home. Right, right. Now it seems like the house is on fire and its threatening to take the neighborhood. Yeah, it does, and, you know, this is a very different circumstance than we saw the last time, last time we talked about where the party was. There is no doubt now, and i really think people need to really get a grip here, theres no doubt that this party is firmly in the hands of trump. The question becomes whether or not you see over the next six months, 18 months, 6 to 18 months leading up to the next political cycle in 2022, whether you have more liz cheneys and more mitt romneys and more ben sasses emerge from the ranks. Certainly wont see that in the house with almost twothirds of the House Republicans standing with this crazy, but were going to be looking to see what Senate Republicans do and how they emerge in their leadership to sort of reorient the party. I thnk its going to be a real struggle. I think its going to be a very struggle. While im still on the front porch with the light, the light is a lot dimmer this week than it was the last time we talked. And at some point, i fear it may go out. You know, joshua, i said leading up to last wednesday that what happened on wednesday, not even a clue what would transpire, but just looking at the fact that republicans were preparing to challenge the election. That if they did so, they would seal themselves inside the tomb that donald trump had built. Well, they have. And i dont see anyone right now on the horizon to break open that tomb to rescue them. Well, that might be a good place to bring in a viewer question from bill who asked about the senator who raised the initial objection to the Electoral College vote, ted cruz of texas. Here is what bill left in our inbox. Hello, im bill schultz from georgia. Most republican senators seem dismissive of the upcoming impeachment trial. But wouldnt it be a good idea for someone like senator ted cruz to vote for an impeachment conviction . And barring trump from Holding Office . If they want to run for president in 2024. Some cruz allies should talk with him about this. Bill, its a very interesting question, especially, michael, since ted cruz was one of the gutsier ones at the rnc in 2016 who didnt even call Donald Trumps name during the conference and got some very mixed reactions from the crowd for that and now seems to be one of his strongest defenders. What would you say to bill . I would say to bill, you know, its not what they say, its what they do, and that capitulation by ted cruz is complete. I dont know how you come back around and saddle up with someone who called your daddy, you know, a conspirator to kill a president of the United States. And says your wife is ugly. But ted cruz clearly did mind. And the Political Alliance with trump was more valuable to him than defending democracy. Yes, he uses the flowery words as some sort of constitutional, you know, mench or whatever. The reality of it hes nothing but a, you know, cold, calculating, politician and i would say to him, dont expect ted cruz to vote against vote for convicting the president because that doesnt work with his shortterm political narrative. Before i have to let you go, i put it out on facebook just to talk to trump voters about how they reflect on their votes now. Quite a few of them said, similar to what i saw from angela who wrote, this just the first sentence, but it kept coming up that it is only about policy, not personality. That there seems to have been a shift, at least among the trump voters who engaged with me, thank you all for talking with me on facebook. I really appreciate it. That they made a very different decision in how they voted for donald trump than, say, the way they voted for ronald reagan, where it wasnt about casting a Beautiful Image of a america that could be but felt much more transactional. Like it or not, i wonder if thats part of the future. Before i got to let you go, if thats part of the future of understanding and maybe rebuilding the Republican Party, is just accepting that some people didnt make a principled vote about donald trump, they made a policy vote, made a transactional vote and even now theyre cool with that. Yeah, they are cool with that and i would debate the, you know, policy transactional part because, you know, beyond build a wall and some of the other hot rhetoric that weve heard, there was no real consistent policy perspective, so this, i think, has to deal with the transaction of grievance. It has to deal with the fact that he was the perfect avatar to express the frustration and anger which should not be discounted. But i think that was much more implied for me at least in observing this than anything else. Former rnc chairman Michael Steele, i swear one night well have you on to talk about something other than your house being on fire, getting broken into, or having plagues of locusts or being on a fault line. I swear we will talk to you man, come on. You know, its you will get this fixerupper fixed up one of these days. Were working. I appreciate you making time for us. Youll get it done. Thanks very much. We discussed the future of the Republican Party with michael. Were going to talk about the future of the Democratic Party. Outgoing chair tom perez is coming up in our next hour. Ahead, former fbi director james comey said joe biden should, indeed, consider pardoning donald trump for the sake of moving the nation forward. Well get some perspective from the former lead prosecutor in Robert Muellers special counsel office. Also were taking more of your questions about the coronavirus pandemic and the vaccines. A member of president elect bidens transition covid19 Advisory Board will bring us some answers. And well dive into whats next in the fight against Climate Change. What that would look like under the Biden Administration and what roadblocks may be in the way. Thats all coming up when the week continues from washington on msnbc. So you want to make the best burger ever . Then make it that means selling everything. And eating nothing but cheese till you find the perfect slice. Even if everyone asks you. Another burger truck . Dont listen to them that means cooking day and night until you get. [ ding ] you got paid that means adding people to the payroll. Hi mom. That means. Best burger ever. Intuit quickbooks helps Small Businesses be more successful with payments, payroll, banking and live bookkeeping. Your journey requires Liberty Mutual. They customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Wow. That will save me lots of money. This games boring. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. There have already been more than 100 arrests in the investigations into that deadly capitol riot. Law enforcement agencies have opened more than 300 cases so far. Investigators are examining more than 150,000 pieces of evidence including photos and videos from tipsters. Meanwhile, the second impeachment trial of donald trump is set to begin. Theoretically, it could start this week. There are growing calls for prosecuting the president after he fired up the angry mob. But former fbi director james comey told nbcs Andrea Mitchell that prosecuting him would not be in the national interest. Better to impeach him, convict him, bar him from future office and let the local prosecutors in new york pursue him for the crimes he committed. Before we elected him president but not give him the spotlight that he craves so much. Lets discuss it with andrew weissman, former lead prosecutor in Robert Muellers counsel office. Also former fbi general counsel and msnbc legal analyst. Andrew, good evening. Good evening. Id like to get your reaction. First, heres one more clip from andreas conversation with former fbi director james comey. Listen. One possibility would be for him to list all the many crimes of donald trump and offer that to him as a pardon. Acceptance of that pardon would be admission of guilt. Andrew, what do you make of that . So, to be blunt, everything about that is wrong. So first of all, the clip about acceptance of a pardon, so acceptance of a pardon is not an admission of guilt. Legally, thats not what it means. Second, its really weird to have a debate, should the president pardon somebody or be okay to have a state prosecution because somehow there would be no spotlight on the former president if there was a state prosecution but not a federal prosecution . Meanwhile, he thinks that the president should be the new president should be pardoning the person who incites people to protest but presumably you dont think that the people who actually carried out those orders should be pardoned. I mean, the whole thing to me makes zero sense. We either have a rule of law and a nation that believes that no one is above the law, including the president , or we dont. And whether that leads to an investigation of the president for federal crimes, of which there are many to investigate, or whether it consists of the state going after him in manhattan or in georgia, or other states where the president may have done what he appears to have done in georgia, those are all things that should be carried out. Well, thats kind of the challenge i think, isnt it . The fbi is investigating possible charges of sedition and conspiracy and terrorism. Thats part of this storming of the capitol directly. But it seems like we got this dual problem, right, this twoheaded problem, one is the legal issue in terms of no american being above the law. Other is this political issue because impeachment and removal is an inherently political process by design. So, were dealing with this attack which clearly broke laws and then the incitement of it which depending on how you interpret the constitution, and democrats and republicans are interpreting it differently, may merit an impeachment, may just be better for resignation, may disqualify him under the 14th amendment. How do we weave these two sets of thought processes together . The legal and the political. So, i think its important for people to keep two thoughts in their head at the same time, that these are two separate potential remedies. You can have an impeachment of a president and there are various issues there, by the way, it is not necessary to prove that the president committed seditious conspiracy. In other words, you dont have to prove the elements of a criminal offense to actually impeach a president. And at the same time, you can also have an investigation and prosecution for the president , not just for seditious conspiracy but also for election interference and connection with an investigation to what he did in georgia, in connection with the mueller investigation, where theres an entire volume of evidence related to obstruction of justice. All of that can be part of a criminal case and leaves behind the Manhattan District Attorneys Office which is looking at financial misdeeds. I want to make sure i make time for this viewer question in terms of the intersection between impeachment, pardons, convictions, et cetera. Here is what another one of our viewers left for us. I am bill in seattle. I thought i understood that if a president hired someone to commit a crime that the president could not pardon the criminal, nor could he pardon himself. What i am hearing now is that the President Trump is able to pardon the innsurrectionists. I wonder if this is because the president has not been convicted of inciting the mob. I also wonder how an impeachment conviction might affect this. Good questions from bill. Andrew, before we go, what would you say to him . So id say the pardon power that the president has is very broad. He can pardon himself or anyone else for prior conduct. However, that can only be a pardon at the federal level. So if the president or anyone else who hes seeking to pardon has committed a state offense, and by the way, crimes in the district of columbia are considered federal for this purpose, but if theyre state offenses, those offenses survive even if the president is trying to pardon himself or anyone else. Andrew weissmann, lots of legal questions to work through. We appreciate you helping us with it. Thanks very much. Thank you. Coming up, surging cases. A botched vaccine rollout. And a more aggressive mutation of the virus. How will President Biden turn things around . Well answer that and more of your questions with a member of mr. Bidbidens covid advisory bd when we come back. When we come. M to customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need . Really . I didnt aah ok. Im on vibrate. Aaah only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. I didnt realize how special it would be for me to discover all of these things that i found through ancestry. I discovered my great aunt ruth signed up as a nursing cadet for world war ii. You see this scannedin, handwritten document. The most striking detail is her age. She was only 17. Knowing that she saw this thing happening and was brave enough to get involved and do something that was eye opening. Bring your Family History to life like never before. Get started for free at ancestry. Com to life like never before. Ocean spray works with nature every day to keep you healthy how close are we on Johnson Johnson and the astrazeneca vaccines . So their data i think very soon, i would imagine within a period of a week or so or at the most a couple weeks, theyre going to be getting their data together and showing it to the fda and, obviously, theyre going to have to get their data and safety monitoring board to look at it to see if it is appropriate to start, you know, essentially putting the package together to get an emergency use authorization. But were weeks away, not months away, for sure. That was dr. Anthony fauci this morning on meet the press with an update on new vaccines. Those shots cannot come fast enough. A new White House CoronavirusTask Force Report warns that more contagious variants could lead to a much more rapid spread of the virus. The report stresses an aggressive Mitigation Strategy to match a more aggressive virus. Meanwhile, Los Angeles County is now the first county in the nation with 1 million confirmed infections since the pandemic started. 1 million. L. A. Countys population is just over 10 million people. While the cases rise, so do the peoples concerns about the virus and the vaccine. So its time to answer more of your questions in this weeks installment of dear doctor. Joining us now is dr. Ezekiel emanuel. Hes a current member of president elect bidens covid19 Advisory Board. Good evening. Good to be here you. Good to you with us. Before we get to audience questions, let me ask you about this new fivepart strategy that the Transition Team and the president elect have outlined. It centers around essentially getting more people vaccinated, creating more vak nation sites, increasing the supply, getting it out the door as fast as possible, mobilizing more personnel to get shots in peoples arms and making sure we have the info and confidence we need to get vaccinated. Briefly, before we get to audience questions, when do you think the average american will notice a difference in the vaccine rollout plan . When will it feel like were moving in the right direction . Well, its going to takes a few weeks to get our arms around all the data, the delivery of vaccine. We still dont have all that information. I think toward the end of february is when were really going to begin to see the difference. See a much more organized approach, many more sites as you point out. Mobile sites, mass vaccination sites, federally qualified Health Centers and places like that. So i think youre really probably three to four weeks after the Biden Administration takes power. All right. Lets get through some questions from our audience about the vaccination. Lets start with claudia whos in alvarado, texas, just south of dallasft. Worth. Claudia asks, if you have received the first dose of the vaccine and are supposed to have the second dose in four weeks, what happens if youre unable to get it until five or even six weeks have passed . Does it render the vaccination less effective . Doctor . We dont know for sure. Probably five weeks makes no difference, six weeks no difference, but going beyond that it really begins to be worrisome. Not because we dont know that it will be equally effective, we just dont have data. And thats the problem. We know the vaccines work. Theyre very effective. Lets, you know, stay under the street light that we know and not venture into uncharted territory of going six, seven, eight, nine, weeks. We just dont know. We havent studied that enough. So if somehow at four weeks you cant get it, try to get it as soon as possible after that. That uncharted territory includes new variants of covid19. Debbie wants to know, please ex extrain how the new strains of covid19 are contagious. Let me say two things, first of all on the supplemental precautions, do the Public Health measures rigorously and vigilantly. Stay six feet away from other people. Wear the mask every time youre out of the house. You need to wash your hands. I would not go and eat, dine in in restaurants that go inside unnecessarily. Try to avoid shopping at groceries or get them delivered or if you go to a grocery, be there for only a few minutes. Those are the kind of measures that all of us can do, whether we have a vaccine or not. And its very, very important to do that. How does these new variant, the uk variant, as its been called, v117, become more contagious . It binds more tightly to the receptor on the cell in the nasal passage and the lungs where it gets into it gets into cells. That receptor which is the ace 2 receptor, this variant locks on more firmly and then seems to reproduce better once in the cell. And thats why it seems to be more contagious. Lets get to a video question from benjamin in san diego. Heres what we left in the inbox. Hi. Im Benjamin Feldman in san diego, california. Assuming i can get vaccinated, im wondering how soon could immunity acquired from current vaccines become ineffective against new variations of the virus. Thank you. Thank you for the question, benjamin. Doctor, i think the answer is we dont know yet, right . Youve got the answer exactly right, joshua. We dont know because those tests are ongoing. It does look like that the moderna and the Pfizer Vaccines are effective against the british variant, but there is pressure on the coronavirus. It will continue to evolve. We will be seeing new variants and hopefully we will not see variants that are resistant to the virus to the vaccine. But thats always a possibility and how soon that might evolve we dont know. We do know that viruses do mutate fast and so it could happen sooner rather than later. I think for all of our benefits, we hope its later. That also leads to another important point, which is there are ways of making the mrna strand that is used in the vaccine to new variants so we have to invest and i think thats something the Biden Administration will definitely do, invest in making a bank of these mrnas that can respond or put into people the kind of variant in the spike proteins that were seeing. I know we have to go, but i would like us to put up the information for a few folks who have asked questions about fraud related to vaccines or information about covid19. We should note that the Justice Department is investigating this fraud through its disaster fraud team. This is a group that was set up after Hurricane Katrina in 2005. Theres the number on your screen, if you think you are the victim or have seen a case of fraud related to the deployment of covid vaccines, 8667205721. Or you can report it online at justice. Gov disastercomplaint form. Dr. Ezekiel emanuel, we appreciate you answering some questions for us. Thanks very much. Thank you. Coming up, joe biden will have another big issue to tackle once hes in office besides covid. The climate. What can he actually do about it . Well take a look at his plan next. Research shows people remember commercials with nostalgia. So to help you remember that Liberty Mutual customizes your Home Insurance, heres one thatll really take you back. Its customized Home Insurance from Liberty Mutual only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. For People Living with hiv, keep being you. And ask your doctor about biktarvy. Biktarvy is a complete, onepill, onceaday treatment used for hiv in certain adults. Its not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights hiv to help you get to and stay undetectable. Thats when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. Research shows people who take hiv treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit hiv through sex. 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President elect biden is preparing an array of measures to reverse President Trumps policies. Climate change is high on that list. A memo from Incoming White House chief of staff ron klain says that on day one, mr. Biden will sign an executive order to rejoin the Paris Climate Accord. This week the incoming president added more than a half dozen people to his Climate Change team. He also tapped former secretary of state john kerry to be his special envoy for climate and that will become a cabinetlevel post. How much can he accomplish with the challenges facing his agenda . Nbcs daush sha burns has that story. Reporter president elect biden campaigned heavily on his plans for Climate Change including a 2 trillion environmental policy plan. These are the most critical investments we can make for the longterm health and vitality of both the American Economy and the physical health and safety of the american people. Reporter bidens plan is undoubtedly a massive undertaking. This is the most robust Climate Change plan ever. Reporter so what can biden accomplish quickly on his own . And where might he face setbacks in congress . Lets take a look. Ive rejoined the Paris Climate Accord which we, barack and i, put together. Reporter this is something biden can do without Senate Support because it was set up as an executive agreement. The Paris Climate Accord sets voluntary goals for reducing greenhouse gases. A definite step in the right direction for bidens lofty climate goals. Were going to get to net zero emissions by 2050. Reporter reversing some of the more than 80 trumpera environmental regulation rollbacks is another area biden can tackle swiftly through executive orders. This includes a potential stop to the muchcontested keystone excel pipeline, increased emission standards and much more. One of bidens earliest expected executive orders will be this. Requiring every Government Agency and department engage in Climate Change efforts. A broadsweeping measure intent on keeping Climate Change at the top of the administrations priorities. But when it comes to money, the Biden Administration will need some help from congress. Even with the 50 50 party split in the senate, any nonspending bills must reach 60 votes to pass without a filibuster. Bidens best bet for quick action may to be fold in funding for Climate Change initiatives into a potential upcoming stimulus package where the immediate need for pandemicrelated assistance could help it pass. Creating jobs for americans. That is going to be the mission of the department of energy in addition to the great work that they already do. Reporter biden wants to create 10 million jobs focused on Climate Change. He plans to do this in part through tax incentives and credits for u. S. Based manufacturing companies. Millions of goodpaying jobs are going to be created. Millions. But where . Are they going to be in china or are those jobs going to be here in america . Reporter these changes will require congressional approval, although madeinamerica tax subsidies have strong bipartisan support. As for bidens plan to ban any new drilling permits on public lands or waters, he will have the ability to freeze new leasing, similar to obamas 2016 Arctic Drilling freeze. Even with congressional support, the Biden Administration will also have to contend with the rulings of a conservativeleaning Supreme Court which has the potential to block many environmental rulings. As the biden harris Administration Takes office, only time will tell how successful their Climate Change mission will be. Thats nbcs dasha burns reporting. Coming up, can the president s allies buy themselves pardons . Well explore some new reporting on that, next. Hey, dad hey, son no dad, its a video call. You got to move the phone in front of you like. Like its a mirror, dad. You know . Alright, okay. Hows that . Is that how you hold a mirror . 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The jockeying for president ial pardons appears to be heating up. A number of former Trump Campaign advisers have received pardons, among them paul manafort, roger stone, michael flynn. Now the New York Times is reporting that other allies have collected tens of thousands of dollars in fees from wealthy felons seeking a lastminute pardon. Michael schmidt is one of the reporters who broke the story. Hes a New York Times washington correspondent and Msnbc National Security contributor. Michael, whos on this list . Were talking about pardon me, he was also the author of donald trump versus the United States inside the struggle to stop a president. Sorry about that. Michael, tell us about the the report is so good i couldnt ep mention the good, im sorry, theres so much in this i have questions about including who is on this list and what exactly is going on in terms of the money for pardons . Like, whos in this cast of characters . Yeah, so in a normal presidency a president presiden Justice Department to run the pardons, process the vetting of people to get a pardon. Donald trump has flown process out the window. That has allowed allies, friends, even his personal lawyer, to take money from rich convicts and lobby the president and other white house officials for pardons for these convicts. It is a selling of access that is blatant in ways that we dont typically see and the difference here is that the power that the president has on pardons, it is not like he has to call someone else up and the government to ask them to do this or to even get them to do this. It doesnt sound like he calls the pentagon and say we need to you move the troops here. The president could write on a piece of payment, i pardon mike smith for all his crimes that he committed during these dates and that would be a pardon. It is the most absolute of powers that the president has. And the president really enjoys giving pardons. It is something creates instantaneous loyalty between him and the personal he has given the pardon to. And it is an incredibly powerful power. It is just one of the amazing parts of the presidency. Now these people around the president are profiting from that. You have an example in your reporting of a lobbyist offering two payments of 50,000. Where would that money go . Just into somebodys pocket . So this is story of a former cia agent named John Kiriakou who was convicted of a felony. He wants his pardon, he wants his pension, he wants to be able to carry a handgun. And he found this woman who worked on the 2016 campaign. She worked in florida for the president and she said i have a direct line to the white house. If you pay me 50,000, i will lobby for you and there will be a bonus. If i get the pardon, i get another 50,000. That was the deal. That was the deal. We looked at on it a piece of paper that we had from that agreement. That is how it worked. This was someone who knew president. He was part of the early stages of the 2016 campaign when there were not a lot of people around and when it was easy to build a relationship and get to know the president. She claimed to have this line to him and to the white house and she found a way to monetize it. Well, when you use the word lobby, i think thats the key here. On one hand, this feels wildly under ethical. On the other hand, you and i both know what kinds of offices are here. Paying for access to politicians is a tale as old as time here. Thats literally with a a lobbyist is. You pay someone who knows how to trays levers. That gets you into the halls of power. So is this essentially kind of an unprecedented form of lobbying . Or does this actually run the risk of becoming flat out illegal . I would say this falls into the unprecedented form of lobbying. For better or worse, if we dont determine what is criminal, the Justice Department does. Theres different lobbying laws and restrictions. You at times have to register if youre a lawyer, sometimes you dont, it can get in the weeds. I think what were trying to say here is that under a normal presidency, that president relies on the Justice Department to make sure that all the applications are looked at equally. In this country, the idea that were treated equally under the law is one of the central principles of the United States. Whether that is when youre under investigation, at trial, or after trial, when youre looking for Something Like a pardon. When you take that process that is designed to make sure everything is looked at fair, that the pardons are used for grace and mercy, you take that off the table. It allows people with money and special access to gain, you know, things that others cant. And that is not a level playing field. And for us, thats an interesting story. It reveals a lot about the president , about the wheeling and dealing that has gone on in this administration. And you know, it is unprecedented. Michael schmidt of the New York Times, author of donald trump versus the United States. Thanks very much. It was an online experiment that went better than i expected. We asked on social media who you voted for and why and how you reflect on it now. No judgment, no argument. I just wanted to know your story. Well share a few of them, next. Also do stick around after the show at 10 00 p. M. Eastern. Lawrence odonnell hosts a special program, transfer of power. He will look at events surrounding the inauguration like no other. That is tonight at 10 00 p. M. Eastern, 7 00 pacific. 10 00 p. Eastern, 7 00 pacific. Oviemakin. We will get you away from all this pain. Its soulful and stirring. 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We know it is pretty toxic to talk about politics these days. But listening . That still works. This week i wanted to listen to you specifically about how you reflect on your 2020 president ial votes now with the inauguration coming up. No judgments, no arguments, just who you picked, why, and how you feel about it now. Jason wrote on my facebook page, i voted for trump both times. While i always thought there were far better candidates, he was what we got. The philosophical differences between parties dictated my vote. That said it is my sincere hope the gop can somehow go back to the party of optimism and opportunity. Jeff also commented facebook and wrote, i couldnt vote for either candidate in 2016 so i wrote in one. Did i vote for trump in 2020. If the Democratic Party had nominated one of the younger candidates, i would most likely have voted democratic because i was really tired of trump and of 80yearold politicians. It is past time for younger people to take over. Constance emailed, im exstat bik my choice of Bidenharris Administration as it was the only valid choice to save the soul of america. January 6, 2021 proved our democracy is under threat by the republican moirt. And an interesting comment. I held my nose and voted for trump twice because i wanted conservatives on the Supreme Court. Also because i was sick of all the woke intersectional bs that some on the left use on our country. Im disgusted by his,