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Predicting the inability of House Republicans to simply do their jobs, the Biden Administration is now threatening Government Agencies to review their shut down plants. Make no mistake, the Government Shutdown is going to result in real consequences for millions of americans, and it will hurt our economy. Heres a snapshot of the last Government Shutdown. This occurred between the end of 2018 and the beginning of 2019 on trumps watch. A stretched on for 34 days, 300,000 Government Workers were furloughed and. It costs our economy 11 billion dollars. Its not Monopoly Money, folks. Its not Monopoly Money to republicans who think that we have too much debt in the country, 11 Trillion Dollars for no particular reason, seems foolhardy. I should not be complicated. Funding the government is a basic power given to congress in the constitution. Its one of the few things that the United States constitution actually says that congress has to do it, its not optional. They have what you commonly here as the power of the house under the leadership of the speaker, Kevin Mccarthy, tenuously the ship though it is. He is choosing chaos over governing. For a party that touts fiscal responsibility, its just not responsible to hold the Economy Hostage over hard line policy requests that stand zero chance of passing in the senate and zero chance of getting President Biden a signature. In fact, at the moment, its than zero chance of getting enough republicans in the house to even vote for this thing. There are 222 republicans, they need 218 to pass anything, and they dont have 218 to pass anything. None of this is happening without democratic support. And the bills that they are putting forward, we are not getting democratic support. The day on capitol hill, mccarthy described the challenges of working with members who are choosing to burn the house down. The crunch time as come. They tell me one thing, walk on the floor, and they say that is not the plan. Look, i think that there are a few people that want to take it all down, but for different reasons. I just do not believe 99. 9 of republicans want that. I dont think that is productive. This entire time, i have been trying to Change Washington where we will do this individually. Well, his math on that is wrong, that 99 of republicans dont want that to happen. Is larger point is understandable that most republicans in the house conference, republican conference, republicans call it, dont want the shutdown. So next week is going to serve for yet another test for mccarthy leadership as he plans to move forward with a new round of bills, as you heard him say, not just one bill but a round of bills to fund the government. He says he does not believe that it should just be one bill. Its going to happen on tuesday because congress is up tomorrow and monday because it is the jewish holiday yom kippur. That gives us five working days to issue a shutdown. New reporting tonight from politico reached, quote, Mccarthy On Friday outlined its own plans for his next steps. Besides votes on leaner Individu Spending Bills that have no chance of becoming law and may lack the votes to pass the house at all, mccarthy says he still wants to take up a republican short term funding bill, warning his hardliners that he does not see how the party triumphs in a shutdown, and. He does not see how the party triumphs in a shutdown. Joining me now is the pennsylvania congressman brendan boyle, a democrat, recchia member of the house budget committee. Very good to see you, sir, great to have you on the show. Its always a pleasure to be with you. I had a conversation this morning with don baker, charlie dent, a conversation with the former South Carolina governor, congressman mark sanford, all conservatives, who are saying that in the back of every conservatives mind is the 33 Trillion Dollar debt. There is a conversation that they would like to have in good faith about whether they should be going up or down, or how bad that is. But they all agreed this is not what is happening in the house. There is no ideological conversation going out to manage it. Its the process that you are involved in the budgetary process. This is a bs conversation about shutting the play down. Ali, i would like to point out the record in the last 30 years now, we are only ever in this situation when republicans are in charge of at least one chamber of the house. You dont see this happening under democratic governance. The last several shutdowns have all taken place with republicans in charge, and they are costly. The cpso says that the last one cost at least six billion dollars. Rather than saving money, Government Shutdowns only add to our national the. The other reality is, i think that might have been one of those who said this out loud, for several of his members, a day like the show. They are not very interested in public policy. They certainly could not care less about that. Hell, so many of them voted trillions of dollars to the national debt, not pay tax dollars when trump was president , mostly for the top 1 . That is not what they are interested in. They are interested on getting on fox and newsmax and getting on podcasts, and getting as much attention as possible for the spectacle. I think you are right about now. Ive been trying to think to myself what good do you get from this exactly if you are one of these four or five people. Do some math, 218 votes, 222, which means they have at least for probably more than five, probably between five and 20. This is a number of people who, are i dont think its fair to call them the Freedom Caucus the party to people, because it is well beyond that. There is no goal in mind other than, as he said, getting on tv and getting famous. On the other hand, there are lots of democrats. There are a number of republicans, probably 18 or 20 of them, and a lot of democrats prepared to do this. We understood from her house leadership, from Hakeem Jeffries and others that democrats then ready to help Kevin Mccarthy live to fight another day, if reasonable bills show up. I think that is perhaps maybe a hypothetical down the line. What i dont like to see happen is all 213 house democrats, ban together with at least five or so called republican moderates. I know at election time, they keep talking about how moderate they are and how independent they supposedly are. Here is a chance to prove it. If they dont want the Government Shutdown, banned can be other with us. Lets do a 30 to 60day continuing resolution, openended pro democratic amendments and their. Nobody should put any pro republican amendments there. We should keep things as they are, by some time, ensured that we dont have a Government Shutdown. If they are willing to do that, we can forefront this Government Shutdown. So your leadership, the democratic leadership can save this for Kevin Mccarthy possible, but in order to get that deal of five plus democratic votes, notice whatever deal they make, it will probably get most of the Democratic Caucus if it is acceptable deal, you are going to lose between five and 20 people on the far right at the republican party, but you dont care about, and the American Public probably does not care about. Kevin mccarthy who cares about. If he pulls that, theyll call for him to be ousted as speaker. I know that is politics, and maybe we should not care about it to keep the government open, but does that matter . Lets face it, to a certain degree, ever since that embarrassing first week of january when it took Kevin Mccarthy 15 rounds of votes to be elected speaker, Something Like that, had not happened since before the civil war, its probably inevitable that we would be at this point. Ever since then, mccarthy has been so beholden to those extreme maga members. Hes bent over backwards to get them actually everything that they are asking for. And then as he mentioned and one of the previous clips, hell tell him one thing and then still vote no. I do think is some point, they are going to pull the trigger on that. Well have a motion to vacate the chair, and then there is a conversation for that time and place. Right now, focusing on getting a continuing resolution and avoiding a Government Shutdown. Mccarthy puts that bill, if we get at least five socalled moderate republicans to join us, we can and the possibility of a Government Shutdown. You used a different approach to language, if we get five republican members to join us, which kind of makes it your bill. Hakeem jeffries and the leadership, youre saying that you will do something, and the moderna republicans joining you . Let me add an even extra layer of nuance to this, its my belief that the senate, and it pains me as a house member to say this, but i am of the belief that the senate will probably do its job this week and have a pretty large bipartisan continuing resolution. They dont, from what i understand in private conversations with friends i have in the senate on both sides of the aisle, it seems as if there is a lot more consensus there. If the senate does send us a clean, continuing resolution, then that is where i get all democratic member supporting such a resolution and needing just five House Republicans to join with us. I want to ask you and shifters for a second here. As you know, we cover the ukraine war closely. You in congress have been intimately involved with this, especially with the Funding Approval for ukraine. President zelenskyy addressed congress this week. And what he on one hand sees is a remarkable america and a joe biden without nato, will still be some sort of work in situation and unable to push forward against russia. On the other hand. Youve got to be hearing and reading the stuff going on with this splintered republican party, some of whom are completely denying the effort to back ukraine, and some of whom arent. That goes back to donald trump s phone call, socalled perfect phone call that got him his first impeachment, which congress was entirely united behind supporting ukraine back then. And donald trump decided to intervene. It has a broken something in terms of our support of ukraine. Growing up in the 19 80s, when Ronald Reagan was president , he told me one day serving in congress. That would be a good 40 or so of Congressional Republicans in the house, who are there openly or at least somewhat openly probe russia over the transatlantic alliance. I never in 1 million years would have believed it. That is the case. The good news is, 40 does not make a majority. While they are certainly very loud, Marjorie Taylor greene and matt gaetzs type and others cheered on by former president trump, they still are a majority of the House Republicans let alone the United States congress. That said, i have to say, i am very worried that the 40 a year and a half ago was probably 20 to 25 . We have to keep an eye on, that the extreme maga isolationist wing is growing on their side and presents a Real National security challenge to the United States of america. Brendan boyle, thank you for joining me. I have been looking forward to this opportunity to talk to you for sometime. Sorry for your circumstances tonight, i suspect that you and i will be talking more over the course of next week. Thank you for being with us tonight. He is the democratic congressman from pennsylvania. Next, democrats call for swift action after one of their own new jersey senator bob menendez is indicted on bribery charges. Plus, new controversy at the Supreme Court after several states vote that the 14th Amendment is good to keep donald trump off the ballot, while news is of Justice Thomas today, it had serious implications for democracy tomorrow. But first to Richard Louis with a check of the other big stories that we are watching tonight on msnbc, richard . Ali, great to see. You Tropical Storm affiliate making its way off the east coast, made landfall in early saturday in North Carolina. There was heavy winds, rain and coastal flooding. Tens of thousands of North Carolina and virginia remain without power and. Now the secretary of Homeland Security visited the border today. The secretary overseeing the Border Enforcement Operations and meeting with the president of honduras. The to discuss the continued partnership with honduras to contain the border crisis. President joe biden received an update about the covid booster vaccine, along with his annual flu shot. 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When the murrays discovered gain scent beads, they fell in love with the irresistible scent. Huh, huh, so did their dog roger. Gain scent beads keep even the stinkiest Stuff Smelling fresh. We moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. Gain scent beads but then he got us tmobile home internet. I was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. I mightve taken it a step too far. Chainsaw Revs tree crashes chainsaw continues daughter screams lets pretend for a second that you didnt let down your entire family. What would that reality look like . Well i guess i wouldve gotten us xfinity. And wed have a better view. Do you need mulch . When russia began expanding what, we have a ton of mulch. Its invasion of ukraine last year, the International Community questioned whether president Volodymyr Zelenskyy was the man for the moment. After all, up to that point, he was best known as an actor and comedian, disappearance of the political situation in ukraine. You can understand why most world lear leaders worried that this man may be in over his head. Since then, zelenskyy as emerged as a global defender of democracy, fearless defender of democracy. He has never caved to russian aggression. He refused to leave his people even offered safe exit from kyiv by the United States. Whos offered to be removed from the country. When he refuse that, he was offered to be moved to a safer part of the country that the capitol, and as worth at the time, i need ammunition, not a right. In the year and i have to follow, president zelenskyy has become a front man for defendant the rule of International Law and democracy against expanding authoritarianism. He invoked that message in his beach at the weekend during this weeks Un General Assembly in new york, imploring the International Community to help him hold the line and punish moscow here, he is. The goal of the president War Against Ukraine is to turn our land, our people, our lives, our resources into a weapon against you, against The International, rules based order. With me now is a former u. S. Ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul. Hes now a msnbc International Affairs analysts. Ambassador, before the war broke out, you and i were talking, and you were helping me get my head around what is likely to happen. And the International Community, the american establishment, the american and British Intelligence establishment had a worry, a nagging fear in their mind that this is russia. This is volodymyrs offense get going up against vladimir putin. This is ukraine going up against massive russia and what we believe at the time to be the second Strongest Army in europe. My, how things have changed. Well, they have. And as you rightly point out in the interview, president zelenskyy had a lot to do with that. His leadership inspired the warriors that at defeated and pushed back the russian army. Theyre in a hard slot right now and the counter offensive. Compared to where they were a year and a half ago, they won the battle of kyiv, they won the battle of kharkiv, push for a shot at new territory. No drama, his words, not mine, to over 30 not see that has not happened. I think it has been an incredible achievement so far that they have held the army back. Having said all of that, president zelenskyy rightly in my view can through the United States and stopped in canada to try to shore up support, because he understands the politics in our country and came with the message i saw a couple of weeks ago in kyiv and listening to him, he understands our politics. Thats why he made the trip here, and i think it was a successful trip. I want to ask you. You and i talked about this in the one Year Anniversary of the war back in february. I had been in kyiv, president zelenskyy was in kyiv. The president of poland at the time said that we are at the one Year Anniversary, and if we get to the two Year Anniversary, and russia is not removed by ukraine but then, they will have expansionist territories. I asked president zelenskyy about that that same day. Here is how the composition went. [speaking in a nonenglish language] translator unfortunately, yes, unfortunately, i believe it is possible. That might have been. Why . I can give you an explanation. President putin needs to demonstrate successes and victories, so there is not going to be a success on the battlefield in ukraine, and he will not succeed in ukraine. So he will need to demonstrate success. He needs to demonstrate success. That is what he has not had. A couple of months ago, he mounted to some kind of coup attempt in his country. What happens now . There is no question that more than a year and a half into this thing, putin is weaker than when he started. He is definitely weaker, and you dont shift out and let people fight on the battlefield and say everything is going great. There is a lots of disarray, disappointment and what is happening on the battlefield, and the pinch of sanctions is also hurting. That said, its clear to me that putin as a short game right now. He is waiting and holding out the territory that he has, waiting for our elections. He believes and not without reason, by the way, i would take the same thing, that if there is a change in our administration and a different president , heap my fa better chance of withdrawing american support for ukraine. So tragically, i dont see any end to the or or any chance for negotiations until we know who the ex president of the United States will be after our elections. That is where i was going with this thing. Last week there was a relatively warm winter, which was helpful to ukraine, because the europeans were not fretting over natural gas and keeping their homes warm. That could change this year, and American Politics could change next year. For every opportunity that donald trump is given to say the right thing about ukraine, he absolutely chooses not to. Increasingly, we have people running for the republican presidency running on the wrong side of the issue. Kevin mccarthy refused to invite Volodymyr Zelenskyy to address congress the other day. We have a whole bunch of people who might be leaning into our Government Shutdown who says that this is wasted money, not for us. Give us your view about why that is not the case. We are not randomly funding someone elses war in this particular instance. Well, first, the good news is that those voices are loud, but they are the minority. I think president salon skis tripped up to underscore that. That even within the republican party, they dont want to say it as loudly as they should, but we missed a Pick Opportunity to have him address congress. I watched his address in canada for their parliament, it was truly moving. Many standing of asians. That was a mistake. Having said that, i think there are supporters there because i think enough people understand that this is a fight not just about ukraine and russia, its a fight about what president zelenskyy just said in the clip that you played. About the rules based international order. Remember, we fought world war ii because of annexation. World war ii ended, and we all agreed, even the soviet union agreed, annexation, imperial wars were bad for The International system. This is a major war of annexation, and if putin gets away with it, it has implications not only for the rest of europe but for asia as well. I was in taiwan last summer, and the people cheering the lattice were for ukraine to win was the taiwanese government and the people, because they understand very clearly a win for putin in Ukraine Emboldens xi jinping. A loss for putin in ukraine i think makes she jinping at the thing twice before taking Military Action against taiwan. So the stakes here are much bigger than just the battle in ukraine itself. How do you relate that to the average america, who is trickling had that will vote in the election next week, in listening to a lot of people talk about these american first type of lines. How do you express to them that the people of democracy in ukraine or in taiwan or in india or turkey or hungry, given those places dont have invaders, but their democracy its having problems right now. Is connected to us in this global effort to maintain democracy . We have been maintaining democracy around the world, this not happen for free. It is not just a democratic. That is right. I would say two things to the American People. Think about it. How many enemies have we had. How many wars have we gone against democracies, zero. All of our enemies and to pass and all of the competitors that we are worried about today have been autocracies. That is the first point. Second point i would say is study our history. Studied the inter war era. Look at what americans were saying at the 30s, late 30s, when the japanese went into china and set, look, that is not our problem. That is far away, we dont need to care about that. What people said when did not seize what into poland and when the soviets went into poland in 1939, when there were a lot of Americans Isolation is saying, that is not our problem, that is not our war, keep our head down. That was a tragic, tragic mistake. We dont need to repeat that mistake again. We need to get ahead of the curve and not be pulled in to world war iii. Ambassador mcfaul, thank you for your analysis. We appreciate it. Ambassador russia michael mcfaul. Coming up, senator Robert Menendez has been asked to step down after a Bombshell Indictment involving himself and his wife. Do you mean this one the one with titanium . Switch to verizon, you can trade in any iphone, and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. vo trade in any iphone in any condition for a new iphone 15 pro on us. Only on verizon. I have moderate to severe crohns disease. Now, theres skyrizi. Things are looking up ive got Symptom Relief Control of my crohns means everything to me. Control is everything to me. Feel significant Symptom Relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer Bowel Movements at 4 weeks. Skyrizi is the first and only il23 inhibitor for crohns that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. The majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. 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Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Rsv can be serious. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist about arexvy today. Rsv . Make it arexvy. New calls today for a senator bob menendez to resign. He is indicted on charges of using his power and influence as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to benefit egypt in exchange for monetary bribes. Menendez is also accused of attempting to influence the outcome of a criminal investigation here in the u. S. He is the only senator in history to have faced two separate unrelated indictments. Now, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are calling for his resignation. Senator john fetterman, a democrat from pennsylvania, may delay statemt today, saying, quote, Senator Menendez should resign. Hes entitled to the presumption of innocence under our system, but hes not entitled to continue to wield influence over national policy, especially given the serious and specific nature of the allegations. I hope he chooses an honorable exit and focuses on his trial. The House Speaker Kevin Mccarthy also weighed in today. The emails about what he is doing, takings position as a chairman about what america is doing in a foreign country to his wife, and as wife telling a business partner. Do you think that he should resign . And that case, it seems apparent why. Is that a yes . Yeah, i think so. New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy calling on menendez to resign, calling on the Democratic Committee of new jersey. Chairman jones issued a statement, quote, in the interests of ensuring that new jerseyans continue to be granted the federal representation that they deserve, and to make sure that our party is able to keep its focus on the critical upcoming state legislative elections in november, i believe that the best course of action is for Senator Menendez to resign so that he can focus is tension on his legal defense, and quote. Menendez for his part, is refusing to step down, calling the allegations against him baseless. Joining us now is the Washington Post reporter, isaac thank you for joining us. I think people are starting to get a handle on what the story may be, but its layered and complex. Lets start with the egypt sight of it. Based on the reporting in the indictment, explained the alleged ties between Senator Menendez and egypt. What he is accused of doing is using his position and a number of ways to benefit at the government in cairo as well as an egyptian american businessman who is a longtime friend of his wife to advance the persons Business Interests and to help him in various ways interface with the u. S. Government here, as well as with officials in egypt. Now, its important to know that as chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, this is not some random lawmaker, but someone with immense amount of power over u. S. Foreign relations. The indictment has details of him calling on officials from the u. S. Department of agriculture, getting the information from the State Department and covertly passing that info along to egyptian officials, in some cases, through his girlfriend, ultimately, his wife, with this egyptian american businessman. Lets talk, isaac, for a second about the penalties involved. It could be decades in jail if he is convicted on everything and gets the maximum sentence. But these take a long time. It is unlikely, as we have all become legal experts knowing that the indictments that have been served, its unlikely that the trial will be determined and heard and concluded and decided before menendezs up for reelection. How do you see this playing out with all of these democrats around him calling for the resignation . Its interesting, and i would know two things, one is the president from 2017 when he faced trial on corruption charges, and there was a Deadlock Jury in november 2017. He was up for reelection in the following fall, 2018, ran and won reelection. So we are facing similar timing here. He has said that he will seek reelection. We do in the previous times e a course of calls for his arsenic in that we are now seeing. So we will have to watch what he will do under that kind of sustained pressure from colleagues, from the state party and what ultimately happens there. The other thing that i will know is that the previous charges were brought by the u. S. Attorneys office, different u. S. Attorney office, and he was tried and new jersey, in fact, new york, his home state. This indictment was brought by the Southern District of new york. So he may face a different poll of jurors that is less sympathetic as their home state senator. And of course, like the federal prosecutions, like the georgia prosecution, the prosecutors here, the judges here, everybody hear us got to be very careful because these days, any indictment of a political person carries with the accusations of politicization. How has this played out in your opinion over the last couple of days . Really, its mostly democrats who are calling for his resignation, not republicans. Its bipartisan, and there have been prominent democratic voices. You mentioned one of them, senator john fetterman, certainly phil murphy, governor of new jersey, democrat, is an important Voice Calling for his resignation. And iraq part of Senator Menendezs statement, which was an angry, defiant statement saying that people are seeking to dig his political grave, similar language used in 2017 during a previous case against him. Saying that this was an effort to essentially bench one at the countrys most prominent, Hispanic Democrats and going after his wife. At least from these early hours and days, we are not seeing someone bowing to the pressure and trying to come to some sort of immunity here. Someone at the state that seems ready to fight this and perhaps, that draws on lessons from 2017, when he wanted to escape legal peril. But as we discussed, there are a number of important differences from before and this time around. Isaac, thank you for joining us tonight. Isaac stanleybecker is a Washington Post investigative reporter. Can the 14th Amendment keep adama trump for the presidency . Yes, it can, but only if the courts allow it to. What are the chances of that happening given the immense influence that mega donors have on some Supreme Court justices . Well take into. s covid19 shots have been updated. Theyre one of the best ways to help protect yourself against covid19. Learn more and schedule at vaccines. Gov why give your family just ordinary eggs when they can enjoy the best . Egglands best. The only eggs with more fresh and delicious taste. Plus, superior nutrition. Because the way we care is anything but ordinary. As the world keeps changing, so does covid19. Thats why this seasons covid19 shots have been updated. Theyre one of the best ways to help protect yourself against covid19. Learn more and schedule at vaccines. Gov were done. What about these . Looks right. Nooo. Nooo. Quick, the quicker picker upper bounty absorbs spills like a sponge. And is 2x more absorbent so you can use less. Bounty, the quicker icker upper. Shelves. Shelves that know what taste buds want. Shelves smart enough to see, sense, react, restock. So Caramel Swirl is always there for the taking. sean i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro jason sean do you mean this one the one with titanium . Switch to verizon, you can trade in any iphone, and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. vo trade in any iphone in any condition for a new iphone 15 pro on us. Only on verizon. As the world keeps changing, so does covid19. Thats why this seasons covid19 shots have been updated. Theyre one of the best ways to help protect yourself against covid19. Learn more and schedule at vaccines. Gov a legal battle may block donald trump from president again, is getting momentum and make its way to the nations highest court. Dozens of lawsuits have been filed across the country to keep trump off the ballot, citing the 14th Amendment. Section three of the amendment clearly states that no person can be president or hold office, civil or military, if they afghan gauged in an insurrection or rebellion against the United States. A former federal judge, Jay Michael Luttig in and other legal experts say that trump is no exception. The 14th Amendment, Section Three is part of our constitution, and it must be applied just like every single other part of our constitution, and a unquestionably applies today in the context that the former president efforts to overturn the 2020 president ial election. Now, that argument will be texted next month in colorado, where six voters are suing the states top election official to remove donald trump from the ballot. The first hearing is set for october 30th. The colorado Secretary Of State is already warning that she is not going to have the final word. There is a threshold of who gets to make that decision. Is a Secretary Of State . Is it a court . These are questions that are backed. I am guessing that a court will weigh in on this, but either way, we just need more information. We have spoken to several secretaries of state, and they tend to agree, that this fight is not just heading for a court, its heading for the Supreme Court. A court that seems fundamentally broken could be the one to decide not just trumps eligibility but the very faith of our democracy, because his eligibility to be on the ballot, they talk about his eligibility to become president , if he wins the next election, and he has stated all the things that he wants to do if he becomes president. He has talked about dismantling the constitution amongst other things, and the Courts Impartiality is increasingly in doubt, with propublica uncovering even more ties between some Supreme Court justices and republican megadonor, specifically, Justice Clarence thomas. According to propublica, he intended and even spoke at a koch brother event helping to fundraise for pro wright causes. Propublica did not we also know based on the report that Justice Thomas ruled on at least one case involving the koch network, after speaking at one of the koch events. The problem before us is how to hold this hike or accountable, how to preserve the courts independents from politics. It is a tricky question with no clear answer. My next guest is a former Deputy Assistant attorney general to both the clinton and bush administrations, and she says that there are four specific things that could preserve the Supreme Courts legitimacy. Shes here next to laid out. Its a nail fungus infection. Thats gross its nothing, really. Its contagious. You can even spread it to other people. Mom, come here dont worry about it. Itll go away on its own no, it wont go away on its own. Its an infection. You need a prescription. Nail fungus is a contagious infection. At the first signs, show it to your doctor. And ask if jublia is right for you. 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The latest bombshell report of the Supreme Court Justice Clarence thomas with this relationship of ultra wealthy republican donors is raising serious concerns about Conflict Of Interest in the Supreme Courts ethics reform. According to propublica reporting, which nbc news has not independently congress what the Ball Fundraising Events hosted by the farright koch network. These alleged ties the trump backers could seriously undermine any Supreme Court ruling on the former president s ballot access. With me now is lisa great, former Deputy Assistant attorney to the clinton and bush administrations. Great to see you. A smart reader of this would say that though she, here in over your head here, youre worried about the 14th Amendment here, but Clarence Thomas is hanging around a whole bunch of billionaires to have much more specific things to do with the court, including something called the Chevron Deference, the dismantling of the Administrative State, the idea that Government Agencies are run by things like the epa, should not have the power to make the decisions that we believe that they have the power to make today. There is a short term problem and a long term problem, but they all have to do with people like Clarence Thomas hanging around of people like the koch brothers. The corruption that the reporters have uncovered regarding Clarence Thomas, the numerous ways that he has lived on his forms and misled the public about his deep ties to charles koch and harlan crow. Going into these twoweek camping sessions, with the koch brothers, both david and charles, part of harlan crows camp at the mens only clip. But also participating in koch Network Defense for donors. That reporting by propublica is astounding, because they have staffers on record talking about how thomass appearances were essential and important for the Fund Raising Operation by charles koch. Charles koch through his operatives right now as a case before the Supreme Court the lower case that you mentioned, ali, and that case is literally staffed by attorneys whose day job is working for kochs flagship operation, Americans For Prosperity, and that group represents the group that is technically a front group. Its fun number is the same a stand together. Its addresses the same as american prosperity, and the lawyers by the case are being paid by the Americans For Prosperity as their day jobs. This is a koch assault on not just the Administrative State on our ability and democracy to regulate agencies, be deferred to by judges who did not have expertise. Lisa, this is not at all hard to understand, which people who rich people who make their money off of industry. You can see this in the picture behind me, this is near city and there are smokestacks, things like that. They would really love it if there were not agencies that told him that they cannot learn as much as they would like, theyre all of their garbage in the river, do all of these things. Its a libertarian view that the government should not have that role. Our Administrative State is built on the idea that we have expert staff Government Agencies that help make rules and regulations for things. But basically since Ronald Reagan, before protests he was president , he was honest about making government smaller, and this is the 2023 manifestation of making the government smaller. That is right. And this issue here is one of separation of powers, where these agencies are given authority by congress to enact these regulations, and this ruling, the Chevron Deference case for 1994 has incited more than 15,000 times, because it cites clear rules for one courts can step in and when they need to stay out, because they dont have expertise. It really has been long on The Wish List of charles koch, and Justice Clarence thomas has joined in the effort, announcing days after the case was initially filed in the District Court in washington, d. C. , base after that, Clarence Thomas announced to the public that he was basically no longer going to support the chevron precedent that has held renowned for nearly 40 years. But what we know from the propublica story is that he was indicating that to his billionaire benefactors at the Bohemian Grove club in 2016. And more than that, we know that this relationship between koch and thomas and crow, but the koch network and thomas is significant, because he has been to at least two of these donor events of charles koch. We also know that leonard leo has been in the mix of it, holding meetings, hoping to arrange them and provide cover for thomas by suggesting that at least one of these events was a socalled federal society that even though the court draw was thomas sitting around a table at the club with kochs biggest donors. For people who say that this is some sort of a leftwing attack on Clarence Thomas, and that these justices have the ability to be entirely fair and neutral on these things. Justice Ketanji Brown jackson has recused herself from the South Chevron and deference discussion. It happens. Judges should have the ability to say, there is a valid reason why i perhaps should not be involved in this. This thaw and sentiment on any level does not seem to have occurred to samuel alito, who goes on Fishing Trips with harlan crow or with Justice Clarence thomas, going on private planes to fancy events. This concept might be influenced by those who are given food, fish and airplanes, both, things like that, boat rides what am i missing here . Why is it that the conservatives on the court seem to think that they are immune to influence . Ketanji brown jackson, the newest associate justice on the Supreme Court seems to be clear at the fact that i might be subject to complicate. She recused herself from the Affirmative Action Decision as well. Its just no doubt that chief Justice John Roberts is presiding Over Culture Of Corruption in the court, has target this and allowed it to continue for years. The fact is that the other big case that is at stake here is the citizen case were political reported two weeks ago that Clarence Thomas on that case, even though ireland crow, given his wife wanted a half Million Dollars to launch a group that would capitalize on that decision. He did not recuse himself. There seems to be one standard for the democratic appointees and one nonstandard for republican appointees. Quite frankly, its outrageous. That is why i am calling for especial council to be appointed by the Justice Department. I think the judicial conference has a duty to refer this case to the Justice Department as well, and i believe as with many of my peers, we need subpoenas issued by congress to get to the bottom of this so that the American People understand what is happening with all of the money, all of the jet travel and all of these favors, this life of luxury that Clarence Thomas has created for himself. But the conservative justices say that no one as jurisdiction, that no Special Counsel, no professional investigation, known as jurisdiction. On what basis do you believe that a Special Counsel would have jurisdiction to investigate the court, which is a standalone branch of government. Youre talking about the Executive Branch of government investigating another branch of government. That is right, thats part of the separation of powers, part of the checks and balances. The Justice Department certainly has the authority to investigate overall wrongdoing, the violation of laws and ethics and government. For more than 40 years now, has provided that all judges, federal officials are governed by the act and provide mechanisms for referring a case for investigation to the Justice Department and beyond that, because of the Justice Departments business dealing, with the court or any potential hearings of bias, i think a Special Counsel is warranted under the regulations that govern the Justice Department. I dont think that there is any question that both congress and the Justice Department have authority to check the courts under our system of government. Lisa graves, good to talk to you, thank you for your conversation this evening. Lisa graves is the former Assistant Attorney General to the clinton and bush administrations. And other special live hour of velshi ahead. Congressman dan kildee on the impending Government Shutdown and the republican chaos that is allowing it to happen. As the world keeps changing, so does covid19. Thats why this seasons covid19 shots have been updated. 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