Provider. Coming up on the tvs after words former radio host and msnbc contributor Charles Sykes with the conservative movement on america. Hes interviewed by tammy ruth, Fox News Contributor and host of the tammy bruce show. Charlie sykes, how are you . It is a pleasure and especially with the last year. If this kind of opportunity that perhaps you and i would never have and im looking forward to it. This is the book and im sure everyone watching his already seen it but what was interesting and asked to do this i was not on the opposite side of you when it comes to President Trump but the person is in your book this is not a book about donald trump. How the right lost its mind is the title and immediately youre taking a stand with the title but what i like to do is make sure everyone is watching what your background is and what youve done. Youve written a number of other books. The conservative who has supported trump and his super trump would find probably a great deal in common that they have with you on the issue of the academy of freedom of expression et cetera and yet they see you and i tweeted that we were doing this and sometimes give back why are you doing that is and never trump but what i like to the first since everyone watching no doubt would have a different idea of what conservatism is and where we get into the meat of this and will talk about your own background but explain to everyone who is listening politically and otherwise what conservatism means to you. Guest that is an interesting question because it seems to be redefined by regular basis but for me it means conservatism limited government, fiscal response ability, individual freedom, respect the constitution and those things. Its an inclusive aspirational vision that i think was very well captured by Ronald Reagan talked about america being shining city on a hill. I think i come from a brand of conservatism that is reform oriented and that wants to deal with problems as they exist in the real world but very much the kind of conservatives that was defeated in the republican primaries in 2016. Host that is a clear part of your book obviously but with a title like this how the right lost his mind and i think conservatism is a longer word and as it sits on the red trump cap is it really a decision kind of point that is happening . A judiciary point that has been achieved, of people abandoning something or is it possible that were in the midst of the transition if you will it comes to people you want and what theyve seen whether they think it is veiled or what they dont like what has happened up to this point in the gop has not delivered is a possible that, in fact, people havent lost their minds but were in a position of transition at this stage politically . Guest yes, but there was also a clear break. What happened in 2016 was a dramatic moment the conservative movement that i think was a rejection of much of the conservative tradition and i think it was a rejection of the regular legacy. I think that many of the things that happened during this campaign and the title of the book is how the right lost his mind which was the rejection of a lot of the intellectual tradition of maintaining conservatism by donald trump and his supporters in the Republican Party but is also just quite briefly the kind of crazy that invaded the party and the explosion of hoaxes in the extreme positions and the willingness to tolerate bizarre behavior. A lot of that happens and there was a double meaning. In terms of is it done and is it over, no, this is an ongoing debate and will have this debate for a generation. Host myself being here and those watching sporting the president and it wasnt a relationship to develop. I first supported scott walker and was not supportive of the president at first and i grew into the nature of supporting him and i have not been disappointed. However, ive warned my listeners is radio talk show that we will be disappointed at some point like we are with all politicians. A lot of people would argue that this really is about the establishment leadership and we do love reagan and were children of reagan, if you will, that all of what you stated in the beginning we also believe in and yet we have watched government get bigger, 20 trilliondollar debt, obamacare is the current trail that we have experienced is spending in general the largess and either deliberately by george w. Bush that perhaps is because we are children of reagan perhaps because we havent seen that continue some would argue that what happened last year is in fact a reassertion of an assistance that we go back to the conservative ideals speak. Guest donald trump was not the guy who betrayed the assumption. Five minutes ago he was a democrat in to putting money to Hillary Clinton and chuck schumer. When he was first running there was the question of did he support singlepayer health care and hes been a supporter of abortion rights but down from is not and never has been an actual conservative. In part because hes a man utterly lacking in visible who has been less than five minutes thinking about issues. Even many of the supporters understand that with donald trump maybe hes the vehicle to break the status quo but he doesnt represent an idea he doesnt represent a well thought out philosophy of government and we have to play this out. We dont know what his relationship with nancy and chuck is going to be a month from now or two months from now or a year from now after the Midterm Election and for people who are saying we are upset the establishment because we have not given us conservative values there were seven or 16 candidates on that stage in almost every one of them had stronger conservative credentials, actually understood issues and actually understood policy and had principal and yet the republicans rejected all of those other conservatives for donald trump and that wasnt about conservative. Host it could be about and this is for the gop what part of your book is about the conservatives and as we establish our position here and People Like Us go as we move forward is that the rejection of individuals who were seen as the establishment same as when eric cantor was effectively fired we saw that the tribe to this of a wholesale rejection and is many were running at one point we also supported did represent the standard that this was a wholesale rejection of what was seen as a failure of the standard and a message to be sent and this is where the divide is that its less a rejection of conservatism and for a rejection of those who havent moved it properly or who havent say their conservative but where we have seen the next in line, and john mccain, mitt romney, we see the world unfold and the ability also to deal with the world in his new base with electronics, social media, the internet and is that part of the issue and not just media but how you interact on all formats which did very well at in talking to people directly and be able to meet with them which i dont think any of the other standing on the debate stage were able to do with the exception of perhaps carly [inaudible] who was not even able to translate it to the ground. Is it about being communicators in a new age where is president reagan didnt even have to deal with talk radio or anything on social media. Host on transportation during the reagan era you didnt have the conservative media and the echo chamber that you and i are both part of and i wonder whether his success mightve had something to do with that. I think its one of those interesting puzzles and the interesting role they played there. Donald trump represented something he certainly represented the big middle finger for boaters for the establishment but if you really, really wanted to deal with some of these issues you wouldve gone with a ted cruz and they didnt. In terms of medication hes a master of twitter but he was crude, he was rude as a serial liar and he has been skinned and his erratic and broad. Host not that you have an opinion. Guest this is relatively wellknown and conservatives who not that long ago used to argue that character manager and the president was a role model has somehow found a way to rationalize the behavior of someone who insults women, marks the disabled, mocks pows, paid a multimillion dollar fine for defrauding students who just wanted to get an education and even now are sitting in the oval office uses his power to insult the call for people to be fired for engaging in free speech and yet we are supposed to think that this is return to conservative values. Host thats an interesting note because i dont know if that election was that argument. Guest no, it was the argument i was making. Host no one is saying that this is return to conservative values and in the sense that it was in fact an effort to put out the Dumpster Fire that was happening economically and was and still is happening around the world and as i mentioned in cbs had a panel with three women in the about our age asking them about his comments after charleston and if it bothered them. All of them said no, that they were voting for a husband or a boyfriend and that it was about getting things in order and that is the thing that is resonated with the role of the president and the nature of this person as an individual and what was required at the moment and clearly peoples determine that it wasnt going to be Chris Christie or marco rubio or jeb bush. It was a statement at least worthy of taking seriously and the location in your book is that the voter or at least the trend in the Republican Party which i am not republican is the phobia and racism and misogyny. For the average voter who wants or wanted their jobs back wanted healthcare dealt with once money back in their pocket and to see the future is that fair to all of those individuals who acknowledge that on occasion we will be offended but that theres something larger at stake. Is it fair in this kind of viewpoint to the beaters and voters . Guest to what . Host is this a movement or what he represents is xena phobia and misogyny and racism and that by implication that is guest there is no question. His attitude toward women we dont read hashem. We had it in one camera and there were time where someone bragged on camera about sexually assaulting a woman that would be disqualifying and certainly conservative wouldve thought that but the blaming and his attitude on other things and does that mean the voters are racist or sexist but no and that is where a lot of people on the left have made a terrible mistake. They have played the race card so often that it has lost meaning and they spent 30 years crying wolf. They said john mccain was racist and they said mitt romney was racist and Ronald Reagan is racist in every conservative was racist when the real thing came along in the form of the old right which was clearly empowered and encouraged by the Trump Campaign in which he continues to give winks and nods and when the real thing came along the left is out of ammunition. I think both on the right have become numb to it. Here is the moral test. Are they part of our tent . Is the William Buckley junior in the 60s drew a line and said they needed to be explicated from the conservative movement because they were too extreme and they were crackpots and he successfully did. Not because he was anticommunist but if you made place for these conspiracy theorists that Dwight Eisenhower was a communist agent you would discredit your movement but we dont have that anymore. The president ial lies by pushing the Barack Obama Birther conspiracy. The majority of the Republican Voters believe that the reality is there are the extremes that we could roll her eyes the center would hold, but it was a moral failure. I dont think theyre racist i think if we ask whether or not we are way too tolerant of it because we figured they are on our side mmo called them out on it. After charlottesville that was the signal. You bring it up and you look to our president to provide moral leadership. That was a moment where donald trump failed. It should not have come as a surprise. In the aftermath weve had larger discussions about intifada. We know how it can mislead media decides the reach of the outright visit a mistake or something to have the conservative movement is all conservative versus what cnn or msnbc or the New York Times or any other element that has an agenda to elevate and promote what i tell my audience not to let the media determine your reality look to a broader base of information. For those was the media thats our bubble. Is it possible were mistaking the power and influence of that group we recognize has issues has major issues. I would not describe neonazi the ku klux klan is having issues. This would be a difference between conservative and the outright. Paper. Com, some people there, what milo represents versus a guy in the clan suit. I dont know people listening and we would have disagreements about do we have a definition about what the altright is versus white supremacist . Or is this what were going to do but we dont even have agreements on that. A lot of people look to breitbart for information. People there will have a varie variety. But it depends what were going to promote. Steve bannon went on to become top aid to the president of the United States break he turned it into a platform for the all right. The outright is a euphemism for white nationalism. You could be correct that people will disagree with that. This is where the debate or discussion is. Think people listening will have a differing opinion or be conflicted. We know what the nazis and the clan are. Most people would say thats not breitbart that it also might not be what they believe. This is not that hard to deny its the disc extremists here. As part of this with donald trump its easy and automatic and now difficult. It took us 20 or 30 years. I struggled against the stereotype of the left we do not make excuses along comes the outright and many good people there who look at these guys marching with tiki torches and say theyre good people there and i agreed with a lot of a theres a point at which they need to pass a moral test. There are multiple forms of the media. There was a time when people sitting at cbs and then they came along alternative media and it was a wonderful thing. Suddenly we could talk about issues we didnt look down on people but something has happened where the competing voice did become for Many Americans this for silos. We had our own narrative in fact. Where intellectual ghettos. And as a result our political debate has been dumbed down. And you do have fake news propaganda. The breitbart of the world that you distort reality in a way thats Mainstream Media but also we are at a point now whether supposed truth era. We have a tolerance thats dangerous that something we have to be a reality based movement. If artifacts are better we dont need to stay within the alternative reality silo. Identifies a conservative and a feminist. When it comes with that media can do, talking about good people at charlottesville, we know people from the city and be against the nazis and clan as well as they didnt want that to be torn down or were not a white supremacist and it was a mix of people there. This is a problem we hear what we want to hear what shes to promote what we want to be the case. You mention lots of good people there are good people in general in nature that youre not just associated with intifada if you are protesting and you didnt need to be associated with the clatter nazis protesting for the statue to stay. This is where we have our time that one statement can be expanded based on her opinion of the expectation and that becomes the truth of the judgment. The seven like myself little judges mean your computer or racist. How to bridge that gap with two people who generally agree on most issues who are seen things because of the passion of the debate. We need to have these conversations, but i spent time talking about the outright divorce they play and what they believe and how they represent american conservative value. I believe that we should be the shining city on the hill. They reject that idea explicitly. They dont believe america is an idea. They believe its a geographic location. Theres a real dark side there. The reality is throughout the campaign, donald trump had more than one opportunity to repudiate and recheck them. He dodged and delay again and again. Its a pattern, this is a problem, its a cancer at the heart of the conservative movement for not willing to say the left is not right that these moral key moments where liberalism had to expel the communist in the 40s we have to deal with the altright. Unfortunately had donald trump and defeated there wouldve been a reckoning among conservatives. Now, some of these folks they do feel empowered and emboldened by this current political environment. Conservatives who recognize the need to be outspoken this is our test in our time. Even with the changes the president has made, mike pence in his choice for Vice President do you see other individuals out and people coming in as chief of staff versus his initial choices and decisions what you think is happening, are you heartened by some of his changes been made . Do you think is on the right path do you think it settling down. Those are almost two separate issues. A number of appointments have to be encouraging thats been the appointment of a Supreme Court justice. Although some of those grownups may be gone that donald trump has presided over he was unqualified and unfit to be president and prove that almost from the moment he walked in the door and created the chaos around him. This is a shaped by this its a 70yearold man so well see give it a few minutes, general kelly has not been able to control the twitter feed. Keep in mind if we acknowledge that hes a matter of no fixed principles whatsoever whose ignorance may manifest on a regular basis. Its hard to see a dramatic turning point. Is he going to be a conservative leader . If he makes an alliance with chuck and nancy will you argue its a great conservative moment i think many people never viewed him as a conservative in that passion. That this is about a reformati reformation, about getting someone in her to understand business i can make a decision. This is part of the other problem when you look at the Approval Rating today is the highest in duration, congress is between a 10 . Americans still see a destructive dynamic