And one particular thing that is featured is secret diplomacy and trial of the cuban spies. A legal lien even though he doesnt look like one. [laughter] he is one of the top trial lawyers an expert at civil and criminal trial litigation who was nearly courtmartialed out of the army and use the opportunity of the army giving him he was giving speeches about sam betty and the desk job that army gave him as an opportunity to springboard to attend New York University at night for law school. Met is how his career started he has appeared before the Us Supreme Court multiple times with civil rights cases in front of Justice Brennan with his 1970 case which it with the rights of people with government entitlements and the due process that could be the most important due process case in the 20th century. The client list includes the cuban poet legendary photographer sally man peter Chavez Nelson mandela, Daniel Ellsberg and he has clients that go from Lauren Mccall to spike lee and Igor Stravinsky and sean connery. [laughter] the list goes on. But spoiler alert this book that we talk about, it ends happily at least for the clients and i want to read something that you say at the end of the book. At the end you go to cuba and attend a childs birthday with many of the descendents and right seeing all of these people who i felt played a role to save the lives of these men is extraordinary i dont recall a richer experience in my professional life. Before we start with this rich professional experience, i want to talk about the case that was weighing on your mind before you took this case and maybe didnt and quite so happily. And that was the jane doe case. Not as famous as the client. Jane doe was a young black woman who was raped and put in Prospect Park 25 years ago this was in brooklyn and they claim that she lied about the rape. And mike maxillary of the daily news called it a hoax. And said that she lied about it. So then we filed a lawsuit against the daily news and its and then owner for libel. We lost the lawsuit. And for 25 years we pressed to the police on the whole question of her lying that whether or not a rape has occurred. Last year they discovered the rapist was a man was in prison for another rape and then admitted. So after 25 years she was vindicated. So just a little aside for a second, there was a film last night which my daughter happen to make dealing with women who were killed in long island and one of the mothers of the daughter the killer is not been found but has the same Extraordinary Police and difference and the fact that in my case jane doe is a black woman the women were workers, allwhite but because they were considered trash , the long island police, the way they dealt with the case was horrifi horrific. But it deals with the jane doe case with the indifference of the police to violence against women. That is another film coming out in july called the Golden State Killer over a period of 20 year years, there were 50 different incidents of rapes and killings and nobody had any idea who it was and then mcnamara wrote a book and found the killer and they were arrested and then he was a cop so these three incidents deal with police indifference to women when they make the claim of rape or violence. And this was weighing on your mind when you decided to take the case which essentially yours was about indifference with the jane doe case but this is the polar opposite. With the cuba five. Yes. It was in excess of government attention on potential. With the cuban five just briefly in the 1980s and 19 nineties the cuban right wing were interested in having the provocation in florida interested in something we call the American Government to come in to do something hostile and destructive sometimes by various rogue operations in the United States those that were killing not only sympathizers of the left in florida but destroying hotels and at one period of time the land craft was shot down and 70 people were killed by various terrorist groups trying again with those provocations and those book deals with the American Government with those people. So in 1990. So there is one part of your book. And what you described as the opera. And then there is the prologue of the long and tortured relationship dating back to the early 19th century really. And then in act number one, in 1986 the cuban government shooting down a plane and that leads us up to the trial. But there was a group did it would constantly fly from florida over cuba and do a variety of things they attempted to drop bombs and leaflets and flew over cuban airspace when it wasnt allowed. Clinton knew about it the American Government tried to stop it miami is a nationstate and a separate nationstate when it comes to cuba so the federal government had very little ability to stop with the cuban right wing and some early elements of the United States and what they were doing with this provocation the result was at one point in time castro entered frustration and they ended up writing the book and what i learned after i wrote the book was some terrific stuff which we will talk about but the plane goes over cuba and the American Government try to stop the plane he flies over cuba with two other people. They intrude on the airspace. He sees cuban makes coming up the other two that are there dont leave the other to get shot down and then 14 people are killed so the case is this particular case of the cuban five where there are allocations of these various cubans were involved. Who are they . There is a dialogue between clinton and castros and the communicator and thats a whole separate story. And that arrangement by a large because the American Government into the cuban right wing that the government of miami with the federal government to be involved there or the State Government has very little inclination to do anything with the acts of terror done by the right wing. So there is an arrangement made whereby members of the government spies had an arrangement with the fbi to infiltrate to the cuban right wing. In the same cubans are blamed for the killing. They dont have the ability to shoot down a plane. But nonetheless over a period of time, they are indicted and ultimately there are our convictions and some spend 16 or 17 years in jail. So i have a very dear friend. And i did not get involved in the chase midway through and there is a resolution of the case which im sure we will talk about. And it is a hunt for finding someone that is responsible for it. It is a hothouse climate. That they have assured me and then to be intent on finding someone to blame for these killings. I think in this era of trump, i think it moves that three levels which is on the ground and the level of politics between cuba and the United States with the Justice System and the effect of the federal government and with respect to trump its not the first time. And with these different places. Ive been down to the south with chavez in florida or california. And all kinds of political cases. And to see now clearly with trump and that selection of judges, we see all that in the cuban case. Show it shows you the last in the way of much of what we see today is very visible today also goes on in the United States for a variety of cases for long periods of time. And just to go back to the original with a trial in 2001 it is pre 9 11 and in the initial the fence try to get the prosecution out of miami that the environment was too hot for the descendents to get a fair trial. Tell us about the venue case. We were talking before hand also a prosecution in memphis when it was initiated and it was similar with the sense they were politically motivated the effort to go after a politician for corruption so the media environment was extraordinary and then nonstop and he was convicted and repealed to the sixth circuit to have that conviction overturned and with the change of venue and when we got that he was acquitted. That means you go from one jurisdiction to another then you cant get a fair trial in that jurisdiction so the change of venue is extraordinarily significant so look at o. J. Simpson for the prosecutor takes the case from los angeles so that whole question of change of venue become significant they try to rule the case out of miami and they failed ultimately. One of the things that happens is you have relatively young defense lawyers trying their cases and after the jury fight one of the defense lawyers for the other defense lawyers but the fact one said that and they are is the conviction with the change of venues that the book deals with various degrees of prejudice and one of the significant things is the amount of money the American Government pours into miami to influence the media. One of the things we detail in the book but it is very visible. With 15 million per year. That was diverted to the miami herald and governmental monies these people wrote articles that were broadcast that were horrifically skewed. Most of that information, i am telling you we learned long after the conviction in 2006 and we tried on the grounds the federal government paid the miami herald and certain people to give stories it was never decided. The jury essentially because the government was paying for it in part and then they were swimming awash incredibly hostile and the government was affirmative building the fire. So may be no surprise the jury convicted. And the seven month trial allegedly they delivered for 12 hours. And they were locked up for 12 hours to make a decision to make it look that they stayed in the jury box but in any event after a seven month trial that they walk in with a predisposition with that complicated case and then the jury decides the case like that. And then the cuba five . Hernandez god a double life sentence and then the change of venue was at the first appellate level which is a threejudge court that reverses the conviction and says more or less that you could go from a threejudge court and take the appeal and go to the entire court 16 judges reversed the lower court and ultimately the conviction so the defendants are in jail and convicted of conspiracy to murder ultimately two life sentences. Lets go back what did hernandez actually do . He did nothing with respect to the murders through the fbi and the American Government and the cuban government tried to infiltrate into the cuban white ring and that information was given for the federal government which stopped a terrorist act against cuba there were meetings with the fbi and the cuban government where information is exchanged that the cuban a legend spies had obtained and then to be charged with the murders. And what happened first the prosecutors refuse to bring any criminal proceedings and then with the prosecution that was three or four years after the event and that they have done anything and left the country but he didnt they all stay there because he had nothing to do with it and then the fourth prosecutor is the guy that brings the charges the other theme in the book the democrat in the era of trump is the whole question of lobbying for judges which the democrats 1980 through 2000 were remarkably indifferent so we see trump focused on it but you have groups like the Federalist Society another right groups support the story because they get involved in the case having to do with the judges what they face in miami. Ultimately the judge that makes the decision said that i have the exact quotes in the book with the United StatesSupreme Court and that miranda is the second worst case with United StatesSupreme Court even the Republican Congress did not he becomes a recess appointment and if you look at the judges in this case the federal judges you can see the Federalist Society and republicans who were so clearly focused that the democrats have not and the will rogers quote that i am not a member of any organized Political Party that the failures focused that they were so focused thats where they saw the abortion issues coming from and they recognized the power of the Supreme Court and the democrats 20 or 30 years not total the indifferent but ineffective. When you check over the case. It might have seemed hopeless when a decade had passed in the 11th circuit with the Supreme Court. The two men languishing in prison so why did marty decide to step in . What did he think . What were you going to do . To argue these issues also to learn after the conviction with the federal money and the claim is that it was impermissible to roughly use 15 million a month with a large portion that was used. Now what happened in the case ultimately was a miracle and had little to do with legal skill and you and i both know the story. The incredible piece of information and thats what we thought. But at the end of the day and this story has at all. It has talent and exchanges of prisoner the pope and babies conceived in prison. It has more than that and Penelope Cruz in a film called the network that will be released on netflix in july. It is Penelope Cruz. It has one of my favorite stories and the ghost plane flying over cuba. So you filed a brief. And during this time the cuba five became celebrities in havana. And what that meant to the people of cuba. It is clear that these men were patriotic who had done nothing violent and just tried to stop the violence and that the charges were trumped up. In cuba in the 19 nineties and 2000 or after that and with the pictures of the cuban five throughout the country and to say that they shall return. They became the american equivalent they were great her awake figures and people not committing any criminal act and they were in jail for life. So the cuban five was in havana and in miami where the cuban five where the evildoers. And it was as i said for the long period of time to get the infraction and then to 148 infraction is impossible and altogether if you add up the years from 75 years they were so disciplined and not want infraction that is an extraordinary sense of discipline because you get that infraction so what we did with the cuban five is to make a solitary and that was ghastly and solitary is far different and far worse thats when the iraq war came out and 9 11 and each time there was a National Incident the blame was put on the cubans so they were specifically punished when 9 11 comes about, the iraq war comes about, and then they are taken out of normal prison life to be taken out of solitary input in other conditions so three cells on each side of people that are extraordinarily disturbed who scream all day long and then he lies on the floor and to make themselves. And then to discuss the solitary. And then if youre sitting alone in the cell but these guys never broke or commissioned the infraction. It is a testament the best of men break. And they became that is the maneuver you did to enter the case. And even as your legal representation and the investigation of media and the government and the effort to normalize relationships in the cuba five became the a very important part of that effort so were they central . And any reproach meant unless that cuban five were released and that was a Sticking Point and then senator leahy in one thing that senator menendez of new jersey put on the table was the return of those who was in cuba. Tell the audience who she was. Joanne was accused of murder who escaped and was in cuba. And was given sanctuary. And then to dismiss that rather easily. And to have conversations the congresswoman out in california and was telling me about menendez and the cuban attempts. And she felt very strongly she was one of the people that insisted they need to kill the deal. Its interesting how much the effort to normalize those relationships hinge upon individuals not the policy questions im sure there were but with that cool and irrationally discussed to these particular people and it became much more fraught. And i learned a great deal after the book was written so who shot down the planes . The cuban five did not have the power to do that. And those that ordered the shootdown and the significance of the events. And then one year ago i went to dinner with rose that dinner with castro and to say every great general makes the mistake and he said mine was ordering the shootdown. So he had a personal involvement and had a responsibility and acknowledge that responsibility to order the shootdown. And with that enforcement action and thought he had made a mistake. Made it a very personal issue for him. So its hard to believe for some people as complex without reproach meant with cuba was so much on the cuban side. So when did cuba decide to leave . You mentioned alan gross. We should briefly describe who he was, usaid contractor in cuba and with those Communication Services and arrested by the cubans and convicted of espionage in cuba and was being held in prison in cuba was also a horrific circumstances. And then was there on behalf of the Jewish Community and was given technology. In reality, he was giving technology to cuban dissidents so they communicate. So he allowed them to communicate within cuba and other places. So basically he was in communications with the Jewish Community and as a result those demonstrations on behalf of the community to put pressure on obama. So originally gross said it is convicted and this is what he was sent down to do. That you did not sufficiently warned me of all of the dangers of what happened to me when i went down there, ultimaty he gets a substantial settlement from the American Government<