Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Henry Wallace center here at the Franklin Roosevelt president ial library and museum. I would like to welcome you to todays program. As you know it today is pearl harbor day and i would like to take just a moment to recognize those who have served, if theres any veterans are activeduty servicemen, please rise so we can acknowledge your service. Thank you very much. [applause] today is the day that marked the transition of america from an isolationist nation to a global superpower and there are few days in World History like december 7, because of what that meant for the world we live in today, in so many ways. Were very fortunate to be able to honor today with a Wonderful Program on a new book that is just come out. How many of you are members . If you are a member raise your hand. Look at that, thats great. They given much, your support makes these programs possible because of members and atrocities like you that we can do these programs. And last year cliff lobby who is a Program Manager put on 50 programs here at the library, which is very impressive. [applause] and again because of your support we can have these programs for free and it really is a way of us to get back to the community because we feel so strongly that fdr love this area. He wanted it to be used in this way and were honoring his wishes. So our speaker today, lew paper, as as a journalist and he taught at harvard and he was involved with georgetown but hes also written a number of very interesting books. Is author of perfect, which is a book about don larson world series. Does anybody remember that close Perfect Pitch in the world series. Racial him. He wrote a book called promising performance about john f. Kennedy and then interestingly and i think i wanted about this, he then wrote a a novel about n f. Kennedy, right . Deadly risk about he wrote both the nonfiction and fiction book and that they are a good combination. What a book called empire. William penn was a man who built cbs and, of course, his rise to power heraldry much fdrs time of radio in the television and popular one of most fascinating and certain the most powerful media moguls in america. Another book on louis brandeis, Supreme Court justice. He has a deeper ground in 20 century American History which allows them to bring a really fresh perspective to the book easy to talk about today which is called in the cauldron terror, tension, and the american ambassadors struggle to avoid pearl harbor. This is a very complicated. In a very complicated story about how president roosevelt was trying to navigate this transition from america being an isolationist neutral country when he you want to get into ts war but he didnt really want to get into the war with japan because he wanted to get in the war with germany. But, of course, american policy was forcing a decision one way or another. You will hear a fantastic story. The book is in the cauldron. There would be a book signing afterwards. Please welcome lew paper. [applause] thank you all for coming. When paul said hes going to introduce me, i had only one request. I said i dont care if its true or not, just make me look good. And i think you did a great job. But i do want to thank paul and cliff for the invitation to be here. Its a great honor and im very privileged and very flattered to have received the invitation. Being here has a special meaning for me. When i was a little boy, my father talked to me all the time about president roosevelt. And the reason my father talked to me about president roosevelt was because id been stricken with polio as as a little boy. And my father wanted me to know that polio would not prevent me from being a success in life. And he had no better example of scores than president roosevelt. I was very fortunate. My polio was not as severe as president roosevelts. And later when got a little older my father brought me here to the library and museum. It was a very special trip. I was awestruck by the place. And i can only say i wish my father could be here with me today. I think he would really enjoy it. It. But enough about these personal matters. Pearl harbor. Weve all seen that film of president roosevelt standing in the well of the United States house of representatives on december 8, 1941, saying that december 7, 1941, is a date that will live in infamy, because of japans surprise attack on the u. S. Naval base at pearl harbor. There is no evidence that president roosevelt or his cabinet new and advanced specifically that japan would attack pearl harbor. But they should not have been surprised that japan would attack the United States. In november 1941, only a few weeks before pearl harbor, joseph grew sent to telegrams, the secretary of state, warning him that japan was prepared to launch a suicidal war against the United States, and that Armed Conflict could come with a dangerous and dramatic suddenness. So who was joseph grew and how did he know that . In november 1941, joseph grew was 61, tall, lean, which eyebrows, a full mustache. He had been an american diplomat for almost 40 years and yet been americas ambassador to japan should i be using this one . Can you hear me better now . No. Okay, some clad i recognize i was using the wrong microphone. In any event, joseph grew had been an american diplomat for almost 40 years. He had been americas ambassador to japan for almost ten years. There are four factors that led him to send those telegrams to secretary of state cordell hull in november 1941. The first factor was a japanese economy. The United States had imposed economic sanctions on japan in an effort to curb japans military aggression in china and in Southeast Asia. Those economic sanctions had crippled the japanese economy. Rice was being rationed. There was no gasoline for cars. The few cars that the first tokyos streets had to be fitted with charcoal engines. Imported coffee was also unavailable. It had been replaced by another brew, about which the New York Times correspondent said, it was better not to ask too many questions. There was a second factor that lead grew to send those telegrams to secretary of state cordell hull in november 1941. That was a japanese mindset. Grew narrow that a crippled economy would lead to a sense of desperation among the japanese, and a sense of desperation would lead to war. It was all part of that samurai you are die spirit that still prevailed in japan. Grew new that for japanese leaders annihilation through a suicidal war with the United States was better than the humiliation of succumbing to american pressure. Theres a story which illustrates that japanese mindset. In the fall of 1941, grew received word from the American Embassy in china about a japanese soldier who would been captured by chinese troops in the fighting there. The japanese government said that neither it or the family comes far as they were concerned, that japanese soldier was dead. Because, said the government, any japanese soldier who had allowed himself to be captured, had dishonored his family, and dishonored his government. There is a third factor that led him to send those telegrams to cordell hall in november of 1941. In that concerned the japanese ability to control the japanese population. If i was writing a book about nonstate germany, i would not have to tell you about the brutality of the government. Japan was also a very repressive society. Secret police were everywhere surveillance was pervasive, no dissent was allowed. And an indiscreet word uttered to a friend, neighbor or a Family Member and a person could find themselves arrested, thrown in jail, and subjected to horrific torture. The group understood the upshot of all of this. If japanese leaders issued a command to launch a suicidal war against the United States, the japanese people would obey that command, and they would fight to the death. There is a fourth factor that led group to send those telegrams in 1941. And that revolves around discussions with japanese representatives were having in washington d. C. Was secretary of state cordell hall about a possible agreement between japan and the United States to resolve the differences between the two countries. Not withstanding that samurai do or die spirit, japanese leaders knew the risk of war to United States so they supported an initiative in the spring of 1941 to have discussions with hall in washington to see if the two countries could reach an agreement. For his part, secretary of state cordell hull knew virtually there is no chance of japan and the United States reaching an agreement. He regarded japan as one of the last desperados in the history of mankind. He subscribed to the view that no promises of the jabs, is a call them, would be worth anything. But a whole could not tell that directly to the chinese representatives who came to washington d. C. , why . Because the spring of 1941, americas military capabilities were woefully inadequate. Im president roosevelt and the military chiefs urged hall to drag those conversations out the japanese as long as possible to give the United States time to bolster its military capabilities and to defer or delay any conflict in the specific for which the United States was not prepared. And so, that is what holden. From the spring through the summer into the fall of 1941 he spent untold hours talking to japanese representatives about an agreement that he knew it would probably never come to fruition. By the fall of 1941, lou reported to hall from tokyo, that japanese leaders were very frustrated about the lack of progress in discussions and that the japanese leaders were beginning to sense that the United States was not really interested in an agreement and that the United States was merely playing for time. But for japan, time was running out. In those months before pearl harbor, group made many recommendations to roosevelt and cordell hole about things they could do to avoid the war we saw coming. Very few of grooves recommendations were acknowledged, none were accepted. Why . Because back in the United States and especially in washington, people could not believe that japan would directly attack the United States. The United States was so much larger in population resources that people in washington and elsewhere thought it would be utterly stupid for japan to directly attack the United States. And so, we would later write that american policy in those months before pearl harbor, was completely inflexible and that his reporting to the government from tokyo, was like throwing pebbles into a lake at night. When pearl harbor occurred, as you might imagine, joseph group was very frustrated and very bitter. Because he felt that the Roosevelt Administration had squandered a chance to possibly avoid war. When pearl harbor did occur, grew and the other members of the American Embassy in tokyo were immediately arrested and taken as prisoners of war. They were all placed in the American Embassy in tokyo for about six months, while japan and the United States worked out a Diplomatic Exchange agreement so american diplomats in japan could return to the United States and japanese diplomats the United States could return to japan. During the six months that he was held as a prisoner of war, joseph carew wrote a 60 page report that detailed his criticism of United States in the months before pearl harbor he planned on getting that report to president roosevelt and secretary of state court of hull but that never happened. When grew return to the state in august of 1942, he showed the report to secretary of state cordell hull. He glanced at the report, whole immediately saw that the report criticized decisions which hull had made in the months before pearl harbor whole immediately demanded that grew destroyed that report. As a subordinate official in the state department, grew felt he had no choice but to agree to hold demand. So he destroyed that report. I should add, there is no evidence, and president roosevelt knew about the report or its destruction. For his part, grew never publicly acknowledged the destruction of the report. Even when he was asked, in a postwar congressional hearing whether he had prepared any report to give to hull upon his return to the United States. Thank you for that indulgence. So how did i come to write this book about joseph grew in pearl harbor . About six years ago, i was going to write a book about america in 1941. It was a pivotal year for the country. Franklin d roosevelt had been inaugurated for an unprecedented third term as president. The uaw had signed its first contract with the car manufacturer. The new york yankees, joe dimaggio had safely and 56 games which is a record that still stands. And of course japan attacked pearl harbor. The course of my research, i came across the name of joseph grew, and his effort to orchestrate an agreement between japan and the United States to avoid the war he saw coming. I was intrigued, and the more i researched the more i realize that grooves story had never been told. Until i switched gears to tell that story. In writing this book, i wanted to bring the characters live for the reader. Take president roosevelt, he is a central figure in this drama when you see roosevelt standing on the well of the United States house of representatives on december 8, 1941, saying that december 7, 1941 is a date that will live in infamy, he looks so strong, sounds so vibrant, but as we discussed, here is a manhood been stricken by polio and could not walk. I was thinking about it when i was writing the book. You and i, we get up in the morning, we go to the bathroom we do our business we come back we get dressed, we go about our day. Roosevelt could not do all of that without assistance. And that assistance was not going to be provided by his wife eleanor. She had her own bedroom down the hall the white house, and more than that she was almost always traveling. Instead, roosevelt relied on a ballet. Roosevelt had two valets during his 12 years in the white house. And i thought, wouldnt it be great if i could find some commentary from those valets about what roosevelt was like in those private moments with his belly. When i was able to find that commentary. I learned that in those private moments with his valet, roosevelt almost always displayed a sweet, amiable, disposition. Roosevelts valet and december 1941, was arthur prettyman, a big black man who was a chief petty officer in the United States navy. Petty men also a very goodlooking guy. And although he was married, roosevelt liked to tease him about being a ladies man. And every time he would tease him about beating a ladies man, he would respond one does not refute the chief executive, mr. President. I wanted to provide that same intimacy in talking about joseph grew. To do that, i talked to many members of his family. His grandchildren, his cousins, his greatgrandchildren, they told me many stories that were very useful one story stood out because it displayed grooves diplomatic skills and his stature. It was january 1949, grew was asked to provide remarks at a dinner in honor of general George C Marshall who is retiring as secretary of state. General marshall had been chief of the army during world war ii after the war treatment appointed him as secretary of state. Now, in january 1949, general marshall was going to retire to his farm in virginia with his wife. In the audience was general Dwight D Eisenhower and his wife. Im sure you all know general eisenhower led the allied invasion of normandy in his Closing Remarks in honor of general marshall, he said all he wants to do is retire to his farm in virginia with missus eisenhower. [laughter] as soon as he said that, people began to laugh. He immediately recognized his mistake and quickly and coolly said my apologies to the general. At that point, general eisenhower blurted out, which general . [laughter] i did not rely solely on discussions with members of grews family. I also had access to a lot of documents. More document was more important than grews diary. This guy was incredibly disciplined. Throughout his long diplomatic career, almost every evening during the week and on weekends, he would sit at his desk, his pipe clenched between his teeth, his smith corona typewriter in front of him, and he would write out what had happened, what had been said, and what he had thought in the previous day. I had access to thousands of pages of grews diary. I knew almost everything he did, everything he said, and everything he thought in those months before pearl harbor. I knew the time he got up in the morning, i knew that his favorite scotch whiskey was Johnny Walker red, and i knew too, about his very deep feelings for his wife, alice. And in fact, in many respects, this book is a love story. When joseph grew married alice perry in 1904, she was a tall, vivacious, beautiful woman with long dark hair. Alice came from a prominent family in boston. She had little formal education because the family was always traveling. But alice was very smart, and she had a lots of opinions. And alice wanted to share those opinions with her husband. And he was willing to listen. Grew told his daughters that he rarely sent out an Important Message or communication, or rarely did anything of any consequence without consulting alice. But alice was a Formidable Force in her own right. That was illustrated by a story told by grews private secretary. It concerned a social evening in american evening in tokyo shortly before pearl harbor. The grews invited over for dinner, sir Robert Craigie, the british and vassar to japan, and his wife lady craigie, the grews like sir robert, the grews did not like the lady, they thought she was a nasty woman. In any event, at the social occasions at the American Embassy in tokyo, the grews would often show a movie after dinner. The problem was, the projector they used to show the movie was often breaking down. On this particular occasion, as they were watching a movie, the projector again broke down. When it did, lady craigie turned to alice and said isnt it unfortunate, my dear, that that machine of yours is always breaking down. Without skipping a beat alice turned to lady craigie and said yes, but isnt it great that we have no important guests tonight. [laughter] i tried to provide that same intimacy in describing the other characters in this drama both american and japanese and if you read the book, you will see that the attack at pearl harbor, was not merely a clash of governments, it was a product of the personalities, the perspectives, and the prejudices of people like you and me you read this book it will change the way you look at pearl harbor. So i want to thank you for coming, and if people have a question, if anybody has questions i would be happy to answer any questions anyone might have. Just keep it clean. Host i think there is a microphone. [applause] i have a couple of questions. One of the things the japanese are fairly well known for is their resourcefulness. Now, forgive me if we all pretty much drove here today and we are all aware of the price of gas. Back in those days, the japanese, one of the primary sources in their fuel for their not only their navy, army, and their domestic use, pretty much came from the United States. It seems like the british, the germans, with the raiders teaming around Southeast Asia because they did not have any problem getting fuel for their ships. The british did not have trouble getting fuel for their ships. In 1937 the japanese attempted to get an Oil Consortium agreement with southeast timor, and nothing seemed to ever happen. Why couldnt the japanese biofuel from the nai . In other words in their series of islands which will flush with oil and still flush with oil today. Why did they have to come 5000 miles across the pacific in 5000 miles back . Guest thats a good question. I realize that doesnt pertain exactly to what youre talking about what had been there for ten years. I cant help but think that maybe, somewhere along the lines they think of another fuel source besides the u. S. Guest grew is not can i help and no one in that issue, i dont want to create a misimpression, grew as a patriot. He saw his role as an ambassador as a representative United States. He saw it as a mission to promote peace. Because he had been in the Berlin Embassy in germany drilled world war i. He understood the consequence of war. He knew what war brought. So he was desperate to try to avoid war, not advance the cause of the japanese grew not of a given japanese and advice about that but japanese you are correct very resourceful and they did pursue other alternatives to get oil in the indies and other places. In part, not entirely but on part because the United States also recognize what you said in the United States works with the Dutch East Indies and other countries to provide to prevent japan from running around the embargoes and the sanctions, which the United States had imposed. Because if japan could be resourceful to get around it, then of course the sanctions would not be effective. And the United States government was very much aware of that. I just have one of the questions and she were able to see all of this diary that mr. Grew capped. Was there ever any mention of a person, by the lady to keep a diary like that not only when he was in japan but throughout his whole time . Guest yes. Was or any mention that diary of a person of the name of tyler kent . Guest you are really testing me now. [laughter] i cant remember the name quite frankly, you can go, i should say for those of you who are interested in the book, you can go to my website, lew pa pe are. Com you go to my website there is a fuller description of the book and you can see reviews and a video about the book. I know it doesnt sound like a blockbuster but there is a video about the book on the website and the reason i bring that up for this gentleman for any of you if you have questions, after you leave here today, and say g i wish i wouldve asked in this or that, you can go to my website and you can reach me through my website. I promise you, if you send me a question, i will do my best to answer promptly. Thank you. Guest youre welcome, thank you. They were called the japanese desperados there was other countries are aware of what was happening in china. This wasnt just a mere battle or fights going on. This was destruction of horrendous proportions. You said that cordell hull had made several statements in his paper, is there anything in the diary with these mistakes work . Or anything that happen . Guest first of all youre quite right. The japanese military, they engaged they are brutal and they engaged in quite a number atrocities what we called the rape of nanking where thousands of chinese civilians were raped, murdered, beaten, it was beyond is unspeakable. That was the army. And they did do very bad things. But i will say this, grew understood that and accepted that. But again grew was looking out for the United States and he did not want the United States to become in a war if they could avoid it. As it goes to their integrity. Whole refuse, and ill give you my perspective, this is bruce perspective. He felt, certainly in retrospect, that secretary of state whole was not receptive to suggestions which grew had made. That grew thought would avoid the war. So in terms of the mistakes, one of the mistakes he made from bruce prospective was concerned a meeting that grew that the port japanese Prime Minister had requested a meeting of president roosevelt. And this is in the summer and fall of 1941. This Prime Minister had unique stature in this commanded respect among all the factions in japan. He told grew, that he was prepared to go to the United States and meet with roosevelt on american soil anywhere in america and trent roosevelt wanted. And he would give the president concessions to reach an agreement to avoid war. Because this Prime Minister desperately wanted to avoid war. And in his camp was an emperor. Japan had an emperor that was revered throughout japan. In those days, i think the emperor truly wanted a diplomatic resolution. The Prime Minister told grew that if he could meet with roosevelt, he had the support of the emperor to stop the fighting of japanese troops in china. Hull did not want roosevelt to meet with the Prime Minister, and he convinced roosevelt to not meet with the Prime Minister. Roosevelt wanted to move the Prime Minister, because president roosevelt had great confidence in his ability to deal with other people. He met with a lot of foreign leaders during world war ii. So in terms of what grew thought whole did wrong, grew felt that whole was very inflexible and not accepted to suggestions that grew thought might leave to an avoidance of war. To group feel the japanese would withdraw from china . And if not, what would be basis of the peace treaty . Guest did he think japan later draw from china . Its interesting bring that up. Thats a good point. So, when grew was sailing back from japan in august 1942. And they had this report that i described a moment ago. He wanted to give to president roosevelt and secretary of state cordell hull. While he was on the ship coming back to america, groot wrote a very long letter, a cover letter to president roosevelt this was like a deer frank letter, these guys went to School Together so grew and roosevelt knew each other very well. So grew drafted a dear frank letter on the ship to explain he was attaching a copy of this report. And in that letter, grew explained that this japanese Prime Minister that im mention a moment ago had said that the chinese troops would be withdrawn, except for a small contingent in manchuria. And so, thats what group was told in the Prime Minister come as i said, had told grew that the Prime Minister had the support of the emperor in doing that. In an interview about 30 years ago, when asked if he had buck to the army, i believe he said that he would have been assassinated by the army if he had buck to the army. Guest i cannot respond to that because ive not seen that comment. I can tell you, the emperor was revered. So the emperor was somebody, he was not a passive receptacle. Throughout this time. He was engaged with both the civilian and military what they should do. And i will tell you, that in the final months, and the fall of 1941, when a lot of people in the military were pushing for a war with United States, that the emperor did not want it. So when this Prime Minister that i mention a moment ago, he resigned in october 1941 is he could not meeting with roosevelt. The new Prime Minister his name he was well known in many circles he was Prime Minister when japan attacked pearl harbor. He was a general the japanese army. Theres a lot of pressure from the army from which he came to go toward the United States. Any told him when he became Prime Minister in october 1941, that he should ignore every policy statement that japan had adopted previously and he was to wipe the clay and translate clean message and he was to do everything he could, within reason to reach a diplomatic resolution with United States. And toe show did from his perspective. He thought he had to abide by that and it didnt work out of course. In part because as i say, the japanese rightly or wrongly felt that they were never going to get anywhere with United States to reaching an agreement. The bottom line is i cant speak to the comment that you made because i didnt see that interview. But i can tell you the generals where better to stay their hand and the response from the emperor that they find a diplomatic resolution. Thank you. Good afternoon. Guest good afternoon thank you for coming. Good afternoon, question for you, during the period of time, your speaking about joseph grew have any communication or a good repertoire if any, with william dodd with fdr as an ambassador to germany at that time . Guest thats an interesting comment. Because i actually do discuss that in my book. This is why you should go by the book. [laughter] dodd died and i believe in 1940 but in 1941 dodds diary was published in the United States. It was later used as a basis on a book by erik larson. When dons book came out, groot was very much aware of who he was because joseph grew was a deed of the United States diplomatic corps. He was very interested in seeing what dodd had to say about germany in part because grew had served in the embassy in germany and part two because, like dodd he was wrestling with a country bent on war. So there are probably, i cant remember i would say a good ten to 15 pages of grews at diary that are dedicated to dodds tenure as ambassador to germany and 1933 to 1937. I dont spend a lot of time here detailing it but grew had a very low opinion of dodd and thought he did not serve the country well. Grew felt that dodd had not adequately advanced American Interest in doing with hitler. I wanted to go back to grews suggestions to roosevelt and cordell hull besides a meeting with the Prime Minister were there other suggestions . Guest there were a number of other suggestions. One suggestion that grew made was he felt that roosevelt should issue a statement that would be wellpublicized in the United States that grew had publicized in japan, if roosevelt would explain the benefits that would accrue to japan. If they abandon their military policies and adopted more peaceful courses. Grew was concerned because the japanese, a lot of the Japanese Press was controlled by the government. The japanese leaders and press, grew felt had a mistaken view about sediment in the United States. As you know, there are a lot of isolationist movements that were led by lindberg and others in the United States. And whenever isolationists in the United States they were given great publicity in japan. So grew was concerned that the japanese had mistaken what the United States was willing to do, and whether the United States would stand up for itself. And so, he wanted to counter that. He told roosevelt, that if you can make a statement to explain the benefits that would accrue to japan, i will make sure through my contacts that this gets a lot of publicity so that everybody, japanese leaders and the japanese people, can understand the benefits that they would have if they change their policies. That was one suggestion that roosevelt never accepted. I was wondering, what was japans overall Strategic Plan for the empire and their place in the world . So had there been a peace treaty that would have been signs, would they have kept expanding throughout Southeast Asia and what war wouldve been eventual . Guest nobody can answer that question. I will tell you this, grew thought that there is no guarantees in this business. There are so many factors and the situation is so fluid. So he could not to answer your last first he cannot guarantee with the future would hold. But he did think that if the United States could reach an agreement that japan could get the benefits that it is seeking without war. You have to remember, that japan is an island, and nation to violence. They have very few resources and so they have a big population but no resources, or few resources. China comment Southeast Asia was very important to the japanese because they were rich and the resources japan did not have. Japan had a legitimate right to be in china. They had a railroad, and they had other rights that would enable us to stay there. They couldve stayed there, japan had had business interest is in china long for there is a war. So i guess grew certainly believed due to the chance, a reasonable chance, that there could be some benefit to the japan mps. I would tell you to goodyear the point, japanese leaders understood war with United States. They understood they could not survive in a long war with the United States. In fact, the admiral yamamoto, was the one who devised a strategy to attack pearl harbor. And he did it because he said japan cannot last and along worth United States. The only we can survive in a war is to deal with the United States a crippling blow at the outset. He thought that might be an attack on the naval base at pearl harbor could do that. But even yamamoto in september of 1941 said that a war would have so little chance of success should not be fought. So, there is a possibility that certain elements of japan would have responded to an agreement that would promise the benefits that japan needed. Systemic thank you so one short question was why, if mr. Groot was a good friend of Franklin Roosevelt, did he not send a letter, not just to mr. Hole his boss, but hey frank, you ought to understand what i know. Why didnt he speak up . Today people would do that. What was the attitude in 1942 . Guest that is a good question and the short answer is grew did write several dear frank letters periodically. He knew the president was very busy with so many things. But periodically he did write letters to president roosevelt. They were dear frank letters. The problem was, roosevelt was primarily concerned with hitler. And roosevelt deferred most of the japanese decisions on japanese policy to whole. Because he was so focused on that. To give you in example of what happened, grew wrote a letter to president roosevelt, one of his dear frank letters on september 29, 1941. To tell him that the things roosevelt should do including a meeting with the japanese Prime Minister to see if they could reach an agreement. So what happened . The letter comes roosevelt, roosevelt gives the letter to the state department to draft a reply, and drew entering grew finally gets a reply from roosevelt this drafted by the state department on october 30, 1941. Within the horse had left the barn and by then the Prime Minister wanted to have this agreement headed forced to resign because he could not arrange this meeting. But grew recognize that theres only so may letters you can write. I guess the question is should he have come back from japan . Travel is not easy in those days. But then you have that question. Guest you had one more question . Just one more. Guest dont sell yourself short. Depends on your answer. You mentioned ambassador grew was the dean of diplomatic corps. Guest by that i mean he is a senior diplomat. There is the existence at that time of something called an aa bd alliance, and the southwest pacific extensor australia, america, britain and the east indies. This was approved, signed off by fdr, the secretary of war, and simpson and knox. It was not a treaty. Se, because it had never been approved by the senate. Heres my question, based on the knowledge of the existence of this treaty. As early as february 28, 191 theres a combined Communication Alliance that was held by these four countries. And they exchanged all of the code information that all of those countries new collectively with the United States. Everybody had some skin in the game. The u. S. Was short on intelligence but at least we had some ships. Anyway, was senator grew aware of this alliance and did the state department, the iem is in japan, have any crossover or exchange of information with either the navy Naval Intelligence if you know. Guest that is a good question. The short answer is that grew was a civilian employee. So grew had very little contact with the military in the United States. But that said, grew was friends with and collaborated with the diplomats from all those countries you mentioned in tokyo. I mention one story for example for his dinner was ceramic craig that the british ambassador. Grew and serve Robert Craigie were very close. Groot was on close and good terms with all the ambassadors or ministers from the United States allies. They exchanged information regularly. They met regularly, and so anything they felt they could share it, they did. So they were all premuch in the same vote. After groot returning japan did have a role in u. S. Policy towards japan . Or what was he doing at that point . I guess since he was a loyal employee or subordinate he destroyed that report. He actually continued in the state department his assistant to the state cornell hole and then he became chief of the far eastern division. Then, in november of 1944 cordell hull resigned as secretary of state and he was replaced by edward and the jimmy burns. In november of 1944 grew was appointed under the secretary of state which is the number two position in the state department. During 1945, up until augus august 15, 1945, grew spent a lot of time as the acting secretary of state because the secretary of state was traveling around so much, theyre forming the united nations, theyre forming a lot of other issues that require the secretary of state to travel to different places. When the secretary of state was outside of washington, grew became the acting secretary of state. The great irony is, that grew was the acting secretary of state when the bombs were dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki. And then he retired on august 15, 1945 shortly after the last bomb was dropped. At that point grew was 65 years old, and in those days 65 was considered old. Today its middleage, right . [laughter] he was 65 years old and so he retired. And he retired and commanded a respected a lot of people which goes back to the story i mentioned about Retirement Party for general George C Marshall. Grew was asked to provide remarks at that dinner because of his stature. Thank you. Guest thank you. Grew was a pow, was his treatment changed at all after doolittle raiders of the bombing in tokyo . Did he have any conversation or connection with some of the prisoners . Guest the short answer is i dont know if he had any communication, but they were held, more or less incommunicado in the American Embassy. They were not out and about, the embassy was a very nice embassy. It was one of the nicest embassies the United States had. But theyd had to buildings at chancery in a residence. A lot of the people who worked in the embassy lived outside of the embassy before pearl harbor. When pearl harbor occurred, everybody come all the Embassy Staff had to be relocated inside the embassy, theres not enough room for everybody in the embassy. So offices were turned into bedroom so that people could stay there. But grew did not have anybody i dont think he had knee contact with any other prisoners of war. Is that your question . They didnt theyre pretty much confined to the embassy. They did not have Radio Communication and they were rarely let out of the embassy. Stomach but the treatment of themselves was not changing the bombing hit . Guest i would say they were treated better than most prisoners of war. They were living in the American Embassy, which i mentioned, was crowded. Its a very nice embassy, they had relatively good compared to the treatment of other prisoners of war. On that score, just by way of comparison, journalists who american journalists who were in tokyo reporting for the newspaper, almost all the newspaper journalists were arrested as prisoners of war, they were thrown into jail, they were tortured. Just to give you one little story about that, now that you bring it up, is that on the ship that was supposed to take a group backs United States, they are taking back all of the embassy and other americans and all the journalists and americans the japanese let go and they release the journalist. They were on that ship as well. There is a delay because the United States insisted on getting some people from northern japan on the ship. So theres a delay of the ship leaving in the harbor. The passengers were not told why there is a delay. So a lot of the passengers became very concerned the ship was not going to leave and they were going to be taken off the ship and taken back onto land in japan. In one of the journalist there said i will jump in the water and drown myself before i will go back on land in japan. So that should give you some picture of how the japanese treated other prisoners of war. Host could get a round of applause . [applause] guest again, want to thank you for coming and your patients, and i just hope if you do read the book i hope you enjoy it and i hope you learn something from it. Thank you, there will be a bookg you on the road toys for the american story. Host good evening everyone we are happy youre here tonight. We are very happy to have megan here with a new book, their three quarter, the union the confederacy native peoples in the site for the west. This is an engrossing narrative account which shows the civil war, the indian wars, and western expansion, were all interconnected. The 1860s were truly at times, National Conflict which involve not only the more plean
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