The great debate, the fractured republic and a time to build. This is two hours. Host author yuval levin, what is your assessment of the United States . Guest thanks for having me here. That is a wonderfully broad question to open within a challenging one. They are living in a moment of crisis. It is hard to deny. We have been through a spring dominated by a Public Health crisis. We are facing now also a social crisis and the struggle for racial the quality and very much of this moment that forces us to confront challenges that weve had trouble with in recent yea years. In th a time of crisis, you kno, its because it is the time of testing its also the time to think about what americas strengths are, what they are good at as a country and how we can build on that address the enormous problems in front of us. Host how did we get here . This is that an era marked by crises from 9 11 to the financial crisis to a pandemic that forces us to look to the sources of restraint what the politics is not always good for doing the theory and practice room politics to address those problems that has long had. Host the fractured republic you talk about the norm have we ever had a norm it what do you consider to be the norm in this country . That is a very important question. We live in a time now that has Something Like a misperception of the norm. That has been commonly by the baby boomers those born between 1946 and the midsixties. Those who are running the core institutions and trump was born 74 years ago this month. President george w. Bush born july 46. Clinton august 46. Barack obama 1961. They are all boomers that has been a pretty unusual version of america coming of the Second World War. Afford and over the course of the 50 or 60 years we have lived through diversification and fragmentation for those on the edges of desire those who were alienated from the mainstream consensus but we also lost that solidarity that defined postwar america. Now politics is defined by a sense of loss about that we would find a divided societys with the economic and cultural forces so to think about a moment like this so in the fifties early sixties america was a very unusual form of society and we simply should not take it to be the norm. To regurgitate and reiterate what the boomers did when they were young. The ideals are written in the declaration of independence of the core fundamental believe, we are all created equal, the government begins at the premise we have freedom as individuals but as strong united society. And then to lead us through the challenges that we should look to in a moment like this the politics can be organized around the golden age of is not as golden as people think it was. History does not go backwards a question should be how do we could become strong for the future and that means racing to our principles to see how we can imply one apply enduring ideals. And understanding our country as it is and then how can we be our best selves at this time and that which gets in the way. Host the fractured republic came out in 2016 life in america is always Getting Better and worse at the same time. Liberals and conservatives not only insist the past is easy to see but also the country was once on the very path and with the resulting political debates little evidence of real engagement of contemporary problems and few Practical Solutions spent that is a description of my frustration with the basic politics and you do see them both parties there is a way where the Republican Party yearns for the cultural arrangement in the fifties and sixties but it change for that. For some good reasons that opened up opportunities and that created options and choices and economic dynamism and also it did come at a cost thinking how we address the cost we cannot just think about how we go back to an earlier social order how we apply our in the ideals to a situation to think about whose fault it is we didnt talk much about what america would need in 2040. Twenty or 40 years from now is as close to us as they are 2000 and thats exactly what we should think about with politics. And to get out of the referent nostalgia for midcentury america to speak as progressives with the left and right in general what we want for the future and what we need to be doing to get there. Host you identify as a conservative what does that mean to you . A lot of my work has been about the question what that means with the left right divide and what that is about. It begins from basic premises with anthropology human beings are born less and perfect are born fallen and twisted and we have to be formed before we can be free that is done by family and community and religion and those institutions that are capable of affirmation should be conserved to prove themselves over time to provide generations of people for what we need to be a free society. But that is central and difficult. People who describe themselves as progressives begin from the premise that we are actually born free but they are not living up to their potential because they are being oppressed my institutions that impressed on them. But which you choose to emphasize was very deep and free Society Needs them both with that conservative you of how social order enable justice. So im a conservative. Host the most recent book a time to build, our souls institutions shape each other in the ongoing way. To make us more are responsible the institutions fail to form us to be cynical selfindulgent and reckless to reinforce what undermines a free society. That book is really about the nature of the social crisis we are living through tries to think in broad terms of the social dynamics and the history that led us to the polarization of society and the newer book thinks about the institutional underpinnings of the social crisis we are living through how we connect with each other and understand ourselves as individuals with the crisis of alienation not only Political Polarization but in the private lives of many people a desperation that leads people to opioids and enormous increase in the suicide rate to do a weakening of our institution and with the sense the purpose is not to form them or mold them but to serve as a platform to build a following or build their own brand or elevate themselves. With politics to the media and the academy where they are existing as platforms for themselves rather than molds for character and behavior. And what it means to be part of an institution or to be shaped by an institution is important. We see that powerfully in politics where people who run for congress basically to get a bigger social media following and a better timeslot on cable news rather than work within the institution to change our country for the better. Host you write we have seen a powerful additional source of dereliction and dysfunction to take us deeper toward the core of congress institutional confusion. Many members have come to understand themselves most fundamentally in a larger cultural ecosystem at the point of which is not legislating or governing with that outrage for a partisan audience and you specify, you mentioned matt gates republican of florida and alexandra ocasiocortez. I use them as examples but it is much more widespread coming to a place where we think of Political Institution as a platform and to get a blued checkmark on their name they are trying to do good and improve society but it is fundamentally a platform role to put themselves in a place to channel the outrage and perform and obviously that has been happening in the presidency as well. With a sense the presidency is a stage in the place to perform and to see himself as an outsider spending time talking about the government complaining on twitter with the department of justice does rather than understanding himself as the ultimate insider and then that we dont ask anymore in politic politics. Given my role house they behave. As a pastor in congregant given that how should i behave . Thats a way of letting our institutional roles form and shape that might drive us toward graver one greater responsibility rather than taking ourselves a standing on a platform the logic of social media has taken over the institution and we need to push back. Host technology has played a role . Yes we are not just at the whim of social media but the long larger social process is a function of liberalization and in the middle of the 20th century many great social forces were telling people be more like everyone else the same social forces tell everyone to be yourself with liberation and there is good to that but it can tear society apart and we can push against those places where we lean too hard. That means we cover solidarity. Host i want to bring your book the great debate into our conversation. The political left and right seems to represent genuine the distinct point of view the National Life seems by designed to bring to the surface questions that divide them. How did we become an country of political left and right . It is a work of intellectual history and began is my doctoral dissertation and then over a period of years with the more general look at the origins of the left right divide and it does that by looking through the lens of the late 18th century debate between edmund burke and thomas paine the great english politician thought to be one of the fathers of modern conservativism, english pain english born American Revolutionary war figure a very important figure in making the case for the french revolution and to have an argument over the nature of social change that encapsulated what is the core distinction between the left and the right with the difference of how it is as a human being enters the world and what it requires both of these views are generally speaking liberal views to belong and free society with democracy, individual liberty protecting equal rights of all but they differ fundamentally from what it is from the human person and that debate of how to advance the good is still the right way to understand the left right debate in politics they are parties and the sense they are divided by a difference of opinion what is good for everyone and society at large it is a constructive difference it can be very ugly and divisive is necessary to formulate the debates and it still serves this way the difference between left and right is still relevant and part of what politics is about. What is your politics with this point of view. Im an immigrant to the United States. Born in israel my family came to the us when i was eight years old. I grew up in new jersey went to college in washington dc and went to graduate School University of chicago to come back to work in the Bush Administration first with department eight hsl policy staffers in the second term and then into the think tank world where im at the intersection of my Academic Work in my work of Public Policy of political practice im now a scholar at aei and run a journal called National Affairs i tried to connect theory and policy and practice and has how i came to my conservative use that is a mystery. My father is a conservative that ultimately reaches to a mysterious level we never understand how we come to those fundamental views that is a little bit mysterious. But i am impressed by institutions that enable people to thrive am impressed by the constitutional system and we can drive a lot out of our history of those problems. What are the non negotiables in the social contract . Because are stated in the declaration of independence in human equality and human dignity. Thats why people are on the street we all saw and video a gross violation of those who should be treated as an equal and was not that was a nonnegotiable fact whatever the political inclinations we all believe we are created equal and endowed with basic rates and from there what should the institutions look like to be most effective but the basic ideals are those non negotiables of american politics and i think they are true. Host good afternoon. Welcome to book tv cspan2 we have missed you the last couple of months we are happy to be live again beginning with tierney of reason 2001. Imagining the future 2008. The great debate 2013. The fractured republic 2017. The newest book a time to build how we committing to our institutions can revive the American Dream. We want you to participate in our conversation this afternoon. Doctor levin, back to the great debate was a lasting effect of the revolution in france and this country . The revolution was a core ethical moment in the history of the west and the effect is enormous to unleash the modern way the revolution for good and bad and created a frame the shape of modern radicalism shaping 19th century politics and does so with us it is important to see the french revolution is not where modernism is born i dont mean liberal as the left better way of life began in the United Kingdom well before the french revolution its important to remember the American Revolution happened before and i think of it as the great turning point and turning point of history that is made possible with the achievements of the dreams of liberalism. After the french revolution and the politics of every subsequent free society has been divided over a core question of social change by building on a pastor breaking with it . The basic question the distinction between left and right, comes the defining question between britain and the United States and the democratizing countries and every free society today. For the french revolution the cap Party Politics divided if it is the crown of parliament that should have power. After the french revolution that divided left and right was the french revolution whether the purpose of politics is an ongoing revolutionary process to liberate entirely in the burdens of the past is a process of gradual change to keep us connected to the roots of civilization to enable us to make the most of our inheritanc inheritance. The french revolution has an enormous amount to do the nature of what we have so is a hugely consequential and continues to be. And to fit with your description of edmund burke and thomas paine. Exactly edmund burke was a wig and a sense he comes from the reforming party the fundamental disposition was gradual reform that is not revolution almost offered in opposition and says we need to change gradually not to lose what works pain had much less patience and said the status quo was unjust when he to overturn and start over we know those principles to guide free politics so throughout what we have and start over in the right way both of those hues it was a conservative and a radical revolution you can see that in the declaration of independence by stating radical principles that then goes on to state previous to me is to overthrow governments and it goes on to list why they want to revolt. They have denied the right to those institutions that have long been theres its a purely radical break so it contained the entire framework of the politics that would be hours. Host the first call from elizabeth in new jersey. Caller hello. I want to ask, how does he explain the disconnect how they go along with the amoral and selfserving dictator like president . Things are not adding up. Just wondering what he would say about that. I am a conservative who is critical of donald trump. I dont think hes fit for the presidency. Hes not my choice i dont think hes done well by her country. That said the fact politics is as polarized as it is is why so many republicans have stuck by trump even while they disapprove of or should come i dont think he is a conservative or has advanced the worldview people should want to see but we have reached a point each party defines the other as the countrys biggest problem rather than think about the challenges we think one another of the core problems to be dealt with that Partnership Means that ultimately you prefer your own party over Everything Else so to rationalize and justify what the president has done i when you criticize everything has done he has appointed good judges he has done well that generally speaking with the question of character which is essentia essential, the president should be people of character im enormously criticism on critical more people should be. Host reported this morning in the New York Times may be supporting joe biden. That is unclear he hasnt said who he is supporting exactly bed george w. Bush and the policies he pursue is a man of character i can see him in action working at the white house and was struck me the most is he lives with the weight of responsibility of the presidency in his shoulders to know a lot depended on them to be taken seriously and he owed it to the country to approach his job with the gravity it required. That is clearly lacking in this president. The two t they both saw that ultimately both parties enable us to do this form broad coalitions. We think of the them now as fundamentally divisive and breaking us down. But in fact they have a strong incentive to form broad not narrow coalitions. If you are the Republican Party easy to find ways to appeal to people in broad terms different circumstances and that is a healthy force in our politics if the forces compromise and force cooperation ultimately the institutions we require to free society are ones that force us to accommodate each other. Thats what the congress is the essential because the congress exists to compel accommodation. There are always going to be fundamental differences people will disagree with each other. That is never going away. The question is how to be handled to live with it. The answer in a free and liberal society is compromise so you wont institutions will require you to compromise to achieve anything. And i do think that burke is right at the party isnt on the list of those institutions. Host from windsor linwood. Caller by what has been said in the first call said dictator. If the people to justify word right about the policy, absolutely right, they did not have the rights to say to the president you must follow me because im right. Thats called stupidity. Long ago i talked about the march on washington, and organized march on washington, the same guy, not a philosophical, they said about him speak of i am not into trump coming into my house [inaudible] that is the