>> biden, he does, and i asked president obama, doesn't this make you a little uneasy and jumpy? biden makes long passionate arguments. and president obama said no, that's exactly what i wanted him to do. i encourage him. get in there and hammer away. which of course biden does. >> larry: does he make a better case than the president? >> some people have read it and -- because biden said, look, send only 20,000 troops. the focus here is pakistan, not afghanistan. and president obama himself, in one of these meetings, said the cancer is in pakistan, this is where the safe havens are. so -- and biden goes on -- some people think it's a little too long, but it's a very succinct argument. and, of course, biden is the one who experienced -- he's older than obama, almost 20 years.