collaboration between these two men who were with the fsb but then with civilian hackers, and this is how russia operates, it's the same way they operated on the dnc hack where you had the involvement of some russian official agencies but cooperat cooperating with the dark corner of the web and work for state actors such as russia, private criminal gangs getting credit card information, et cetera, but just the scale of this and the fact it was international certainly targeted u.s. users but russian officials, russian journalists as well, 500 million people. more than the population of the entire u.s., an enormous amount of information. >> are the two connected with the dnc hack? >> they are not in the same