and also, i mean, once he's under oath, they can ask whatever questions they want. he's got to be truthful about it. so, yeah, i don't know if that would be a smart thing. >> he doesn't have to testify. he doesn't have to testify under oath. i think yesterday -- yeah, were there winners all the way around? the biggest winner i think in many ways was trump. >> yeah. >> because we found out he hasn't been investigated. he was told three times -- >> before we get to that, let me ask you, why do you think there are no tapes? >> well, i just don't think -- i just don't believe there are tapes. i think if there were tapes, you'd probably already have seen the tapes or heard the tapes. >> yeah. so, you mentioned collusion, we were joking in the beginning but that wasn't what the hearing was about yesterday. no one said there was no collusion. they said that they didn't talk about it much. he said when he left, he didn't see any evidence of collusion but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. it may not have happened. >> people keep talking -- keep on talking about collusion with the russians, and, you know, as they've said in hearings and