the program are hugely popular, you're not going to get rid of them, even republicans won't do, until this thing crashes down, and republicans are forced, they don't want to do it, but forced into negotiating a plan that all americans can live with, that's the answer. does anyone doubt that? >> here's the thing, though. show me a democrat that's genuinely been willing -- in the senate. >> in the senate. >> let's just for a second -- >> even with democrats -- >> even when democrats had a much better standing with barack obama in the white house, they refused to deal with the problem -- >> how do you know? >> there were more problems than obama care. >> how do you know? you wouldn't start, you wouldn't let him in the room. >> ben, listen -- >> no, you wouldn't let him in the room. paul tried. >> democrats refused to move on obama care, to change anything to it, because it was their signature bill, and nancy pelosi and harry reid didn't have any conversation -- >> okay.
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