couldn't imagine what it would be like to have a son murdered. and nobody was telling them. the washington police according to what i read wasn't telling them anything and they weren't investigating anything. so when i got hold of them, i went to them thinking, i was actually going to try to help these people bring some relief or some knowledge about what happened to their son. my son had just left to go to vanderbilt. i was an empty nester. had a lot of time to reflect on my life and you do that when you're an empty nester, chris, okay? i'm reflecting and thought this is weird because if i know something and this is the way i am about somebody's kid or if i think i know something this is how i was growing up with my kids, i'm not going to hold on to something without the parents knowing. anybody who knows me knows that's the way i am. what i did is a called up, got hold of them and shared with them. as soon as they said we don't believe you, it was over. i just thought i needed to say something. >> except it wasn't. you went and found wheeler, talked to hersch. >> you're wrong there. it was over at that time, chris. >> i understand the distinction. >> you're trying to me look --