not to overreact to it, either. >> you said earlier, there's still room for dialogue. are you talking about direct talks? is that the only viable option at this point? that's something the u.s. has always avoided. >> i do think that is -- i won't say the only channel, but i think it's the most promising would be a direct dialogue with the north koreans. we say they really want, as barbara indicated in thinking around the pentagon, is what they're most concerned with is face and leverage and recognition of their status as a nuclear power. they want to be seen as part of that club. you know, i think we kind of have to accept that. maybe a longer term goal would be de-nuclearization. but as a going in proposition, then based on my own experience, i think that's a non-starter. they are not at this point