amazingly, impressively targeted. >> men and women in your field of expertise say they've always been doing this. this is what they do. in fact, the united states does it in different ways as well. this is kind of the state of play. what do you see here that is extraordinary? >> oh, what i see extraordinary is a suggestion earlier, chris, of the level of sophistication. 20 years ago, i became involved in that cyber thing for the united states of america. we had a great debate back then as to whether or not our business was cyber dominance or information dominance. we went along the cyber trail frankly because this is a bit harder to do for lots of reasons, tactical, legal and policy wise and so on. the russians went down this trail, the information dominance trail. that's why we have a cyber command, not an information dominance command. what the russians have done, what make this is different, chris, is this siynchronization of all the tools of information