the cut out the first time. and this time it's wikileaks. and so we see the willingness of them to do it. one of the interesting things about running these covert action and these covert influence programs is, you know, your supervise, your bosses always want to know are they effective. how can we tell that we're really changing peoples' minds. if wikileaks sends something to donald trump jr. and 15 minutes later that same message comes out of donald trump sr., the candidacy mouth, that's a pretty good indication that you have really good impact with your operation and that you're being successful. and by the way, you might say that somebody like papadopoulos is some volunteer or part time guy, donald trump jr. is not a part time son. he's not a paid son. he's a member of the family, which would make him that much more valuable to the russian intelligence services. >> david, the other thing is if, you know, just to his point, donald trump sr. says something 15 minutes after donald trump jr. receives this e-mail from -- this direct message from