trump administration or the campaign, two of whom held very high position, mr. manafort chaired the campaign and general flynn was, of course, the national security adviser, inarguably the highest level security position in all of federal government. we know as well according to open sources that bob mueller is in the white house, interviewing hope hicks, if reports are correct and jared kushner, and others. so he's in the white house. we'll see where this goes. >> your words, i mean, potentially the beginning of the end for the trump administration, a thin membrane, that's going pretty far. is it not just as plausible that flynn, for example, the latest guilty plea in all of this, could have been operating independent of the knowledge of the president? >> no. and, in fact, the plea bargain agreement makes specific reference to the fact that he was not. what's not plausible is if this does not go farther. whether or not it reaches the president remains to be seen, but it's not at all plausible