do you see this in the administration's reaction to countries like iran, pakistan and north korea? >> well, obviously, anderson, every case is specific. in the case of south korea, the united states hurt itself tremendously by walking away from the trans-pacific partnership which wasn't just a trade agreement but really was a strategic framework for the united states to deal with that -- that entire region and more broadly the fact this president has introduced such a degree of unpredictability. even unreliability into u.s. relationships. what i think it has done is accelerated the move by others to carry out a more independent foreign policy that doesn't defer as much to the united states. >> you make a difference between abdication of power and responsibility as opposed to -- as from isolationism. >> yeah, i don't see this administration as isolationist. they used force in the middle east against isis. they used it in syria. they've used sanctions in various places.