refused that. but because he is so against this investigation, because he thinks that it's so tainted and has telegraphed that a million different ways, he probably politically -- i mean, at least with his supporters, obviously can survive saying i'm not going to take part in this. >> i think so. i think it depends where we get and whether they are going to compel him to testify, whether they feel that they need him to not testify but to answer questions. it wouldn't necessarily be under oath, of course. they could subpoena him at some point. we just don't know at this stage. but you have to make it very clear that the president has, i think, succeeded in what he has set out to do. >> yes. >> to undermine this investigation, to attack it at all fronts and to with the benefit of some of his political allies made the case that this is a garbage in, garbage out investigation, that you can't trust why they're investigating or what they'll conclude because