leaders talking about that interrogation technique. i don't remember them making hay about it. they made hay about it when those techniques became public and it became a public issue. i think what's happened is, much as i dislike the term, had a national conversation and a national reckoning a few years removed from 9/11 and decided that as a country, we weren't going to do this anymore. but this is a conversation that congressional leaders were involved with and didn't do much about at the time. >> and a key architect of the policies at the time and key supporter at the time, the former vice president dick cheney on fox news, he has not changed his mind. >> if it was my call, i would not discontinue those programs. i would have them active and ready to go. i would go back and study them and learn. the agency is in a difficult position. congress has acted, they have changed the law and the agency