the transition met with russians, and yet they keep piling up. they keep coming out, the truth is being revealed. >> i think -- i think we saw caputo say he wasn't sure whether it was russian or russian-american and now it turns out he was 17 years cooperated with the fbi. i don't think anyone really knows who this individual is except for mueller and his team. i mean, schiff is trying to make a big deal about it. saying we're going to bring folks in and charge them with perjury. i mean, the fact of the matter is people do forget from time to time, and -- and the forum that matters most is that of robert mueller and not that of the political effort that schiff is undertaking. >> let's talk about pardons, guys, because, again, trump's attorney rudy giuliani keeps floating the possibility that trump could pardon people after the investigation is over. you're an attorney, jim. why would giuliani keep saying this? >> because he can. i mean, the president has pardon