phone calls that donald trump jr. made to the blocked phone number before and after the trump tower meeting, we don't know who was on the other line. if that was in fact donald trump on the other end of the line, would that be something that mueller's investigators would be able to find out? >> yes. they can subpoena those phone records and be able to see where those -- to whom those calls were being made, and that could corroborate the timing, for example, of michael cohen's account. and just to complement what carrie just said, from the intelligence standpoint, collusion doesn't have to be criminal to be a national security threat. she mentioned the russians were hacking information, trying to weaponize it to promote candidates to help russia. and anyone who worked with them secretly to facilitate or encourage it is colluding, whether they meet the elements for conspiracy is a different story. but i think we have to remember that there is a national security aspect to this as well as a criminal aspect. >> but that national security aspect, i mean that doesn't -- i mean that would really only come