this was the campaign chairman, a force in american politics for decades. somebody who has an easy to understand story involving ostrich jackets and opulence. to have him possibly convicted of financial fraud involving foreign powers -- then we get into another trial. this is whethn the public will start to weigh in, realize there's something seriously wrong here. >> one other thing i wanted to scrum p in wi jump in on, i was looking at reporting in may about one of the original questions that prosecutors were going to ask the president. the question was, did you have any knowledge of paul manafort's outreach to the russians prior to the inauguration. i think there is still a potential for a tie to manafort in the mueller russia probe. >> his work for yanukovych, who was a russia puppet in ukraine.