finer point on it, is inertia, right, governor? you have people who have become so disaffected, so non-believing in the institutions stoked largely by the successful candidate in the last presidential election, who played on that disaffection and said, i will be effectively the virus to the body, the corpus that you hate of government. i'll go in there. i'll make them all sick for what they've done to you people. and that's largely what he's been doing. he's been largely disruptive and that's why many are happy with him and how he behaves. but once you lose your faith in the institutions -- >> that's exactly why -- >> it's hard to get things done is what i'm saying. >> look, that's exactly why i didn't support him because negative populism doesn't work. positive populism can. if you sit with a hundred people who have difficulty and you blame somebody else, you'll get nothing done. but if you look at them and say, why don't we together build a bridge to a better tomorrow, you can have optimism.