how important is it as you're trying to make your case, largely to white america, to listen, but when you do have this remarkable entertainer who suddenly becomes more main stree mainstream, what contribution does that have to the cause? >> aretha and so many other entertainers, they were black, they were white, they were hispanic, but they all came together to make it real, to make it plain. dr. king used to say from time to time, people would be singing or preaching, make it plain, make it real. that's what these musicians and entertainers had the ability to do. i was in new york, oh, about two, three years ago. she saw me and she said, come to my birthday party. come to my birthday party. after the concert, she invited me to come to a birthday party. it was really in the lobby of a