after the -- well, when cohen made the plea deal, it was pretty clear that the president had not told the truth about the hush money payment. but the audio that we obtained at cnn that showed the president discussing the hush money payments and then later we know that he said he had no knowledge of it, it made it really clear to a lot of people and give journalists a lot of comfort to say hey, he knew he wasn't te telling the truth and he said he had no memory of the hush money payments? a lot of journalists are calling it a flat-out lie. the fact checker usually doesn't rate things to be a lie because it's difficult to say someone knowingly did not tell the truth but in this case the fact checker said we have video that shows the president knew about the hush money payments and then later said he did not. and that for them constituted enough ground for them to call it a lie. not misleading. not a misstatement. but a flatout lie. >> the pattern has been the