equivalent of a pardon to somebody who they write should have known better. and he's now raised the stakes for the president. >> he's got a criminal record, so it's not fully a pardon. >> president trump has not responded yet, so i don't think you can check twitter. >> this just in, nothing. >> okay, thank you. he had a lot to say about michael cohen cooperating and in the past he had a lot to say about his respect for michael flynn. what will he now say? >> right. interpreting him is so hard other than the consistency about going after people. it is the spin. you know, people who flip. the suggestion has been, and you hear this from rudy giuliani, that i think is ridiculous that people are flipping and they're not telling the truth. what we know, what rudy giuliani knows is you apply pressure to get people to tell the truth when they don't otherwise want to do that.