frustrated and called him a wise guy. i mean, essentially, folks have to choose now between don mcgahn under oath and the president's public comments having refused the opportunity to speak about this under oath, right? where there would be consequences if he were not telling the truth. >> that's right, jim. it highlights what would have happened had the president sat down with mueller and his team. i mean, someone with knowledge of the facts actually presses him and refuses to give up, you see what happens, the president lies and then he tries to change the subject and in this particular case insulted the interviewer. so it would have been an absolute disaster for the president, he would have committed perjury or false statements had he sat down with mueller's team and we really saw that very clearly in the stephanopoulos interview yesterday. >> let's listen to this moment a little bit more, you guys. here it is. >> if you answered these questions to me now, why not answer them to robert mueller under oath?