going to make it enthusiastic in some respects. >> and finding -- i mean obviously democrats are enthused about -- and they're motivated about the prospect of beating donald trump. and if you look at the early polling now, biden seems like the candidate for now. but, again, going back to our conversation about biden earlier, a lot of his rhetoric, a lot of his comments and a lot of his past positions on certain policies are not something that makes democratic voters enthusiastic. that's, again, something he will have to -- >> so does trump animus overcome reservations about the nominee? we are still a ways from that, but the energy part, the trump campaign gets that. especially with the high-tech data operation. >> i mean he is a showman. it is something he has done for years and he's really good at putting on that show and getting a crowd riled up and having them come out for that if nothing else. a lot of people come out because they're simply curious. you speak to them at the rallies. ultimately it will be about him sticking to that message and being able to prove that his record actually matches what he