>> that's right. that's right. >> did discussions of this come up with you and the team, given that -- before this reporting from our kylie atwood today, we didn't know of the existence of this state department program under the trump administration and then the subsequent canceling of it in the spring by the biden team. i wonder what the thought process was there. >> yeah, we certainly have been very concerned about a lack of transparency on the part of the chinese throughout this entire process. and that really does feed into conspiracy theories, whenever you have a lack of transparency. now that is not a smoking gun. that doesn't prove anything. and there are other reasons the chinese may not be transparent. the fact is, they want to be a dominant superpower, and being dominant in science and technology is very much a part of that. so they may not want to share the insides of their laboratory work. >> dr. gounder, thank you. well, ahead, backlash over the upcoming summit between president biden and russian