knowing that they don't begrudge the upper income people. it's sort of a -- the class warfare doesn't necessarily play. >> i think the big problem with it to me is i haven't heard how he's going to pay for all of this. he's going to cut taxes a lot. there's dynamic scoring going on on his side but he's also responsible for the deficit side. >> that's another piece of this that has to be talked about long term. what bowles/simpson said is tough take something off the table. >> they don't have to run for the presidency. i support that plan and i think the president is serious about tax reform will do exactly that, try to aim for a revenue neutral tax reform. you could always add on revenue in the end but you want to aim for revenue neutrality which was in the commission report in which obama never touched.