recession where the jobs narrative overtook the climate narrative. but the lesson is that there are oil companies, big oil companies in the coalition that was working to pass that carbon price. the reason is they have a great business. it's incredibly durable and incredibly profitable. what they want is price certainty. they want to be able to plan, and they're willing to accept a carbon price, some of them, if they have to if it's made clear that it's inevitable politically because they can still run a great business and still believe in the viability of the oil and gas business. they provide a different story in public, but in private they're planning for this price. so the politics -- we see these politics as impossible and captured by lobbyists and frozen. the reality is in 2009 we as a country were that close to doing it. >> we're going to be that close again. >> we have to -- >> here's the deeper question, right? i think this structures our conversation about fracking as well, which is when we look at the short term it's reduced