either something criminal happened or it was just a routine -- or a routine arrest. look there's tens of thousands of arrests in baltimore, most of them go fine, this one didn't. the fact that the van stopped, i don't know what to make of that. and the other prisoner who was in the van, the one interviewed by wbal he doesn't clear up the -- he says it was a smooth ride. obviously something happened. we still don't know what. >> yeah. and you know the fact that freddie gray wasn't secured in the van, that's an unusual thing, right? there are some protocols that officials have to follow when they are transporting someone in a police vehicle to the police station. >> look, one of the cardinal rules of policing is that the prisoner is your responsibility. so unfortunately, in some ways it doesn't matter -- it would matter for criminal intent but it doesn't matter what happened in the van. the guy came in alive and he
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