to win an election. it's crazy what he did. also probably immoral, but start with the crazy. >> yeah, crazy. immoral. and just plain wrong. look, i've always, we've had this discussion before. it doesn't make any sense. if some day, the republican party, there will be a republican party i hope that makes a sincere appeal for african-american and latino votes and that will require not just you know, showing up at a black church on a sunday. it will require including people on the grass roots level. there's a lot of stuff that the republican party hasn't done. donald trump is not the person to do that, obviously. he was never going to do it. he did the opposite and he sort of energized the at alt right and that sort of sector of voters, but he turned everybody else off and so, yeah, he'd be doing better if he were a different person. >> i think that's very fair.