how can we get him to corporate. statutes like this are important as a lever to cooperation. because he has this problem and because he had a security clearance that apparently he didn't tell the truth on he has a false statements problem. as the problems mount for him, that increases the chances that a prosecutor can approach him and try to get some form of cooperation. especially if they can convince him, a, that it's in his interests and, b, that the trump people are hanging him out to dry. so -- >> right. >> just the black and white of it is not that important. i will say this about some of these statutes that we are looking at today. prosecuting cases is all about the facts and the law, but it's also about a prosecutor and their personality. >> right. >> bob mueller is a straightforward kind of guy. >> right. >> he has the same hair cut, wears the same shoes. >> he is not going to reach. i take your point. i want to let joyce in on the