interest lawyers. so lawyers are definitely benefitting from this administration. >> chris, are you confident that we know the full details of the possible vectors of undue influence that are functioning in this white house right now? >> not at all. every day there is a new way this administration is trying to erode the ethics standards. not just the white house staff but the example this president or lack of example that he sets, and that's why all of these different issues and stories that you are flagging all come together. when you have a president that doesn't take ethics seriously, this is what happens. >> yeah, i think there is really a question, you talk about ethics and sounds like not strong enough, right? ethics sounds like a thing like oh, you should do that. you should be a boy scout. ultimately ethics will bleed into laws and the concern is what the legal exposure that folks may have as this all develops. jill and chris, thank you both for being here.