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stating these statistics and this comes to us courtesy of the police union in st. louis, is police get on average 58 hours of training to use their weapon, about 49 hours of defense -- defensive tactics but only about 8 hours in learning how to calm situations down, like deescalation. do we need to start changing the metric of those number and boost those eight into the same number that say, you know, gun and defense gets? >> yeah. we absolutely have to increase the amount of training we give to verbal persuasion, conflict management, conflict resolution and also dealing with the mentally ill or persons in crisis. all of those things help reduce the use of force. so it definitely is something that we are paying more attention to. but that doesn't mean you can detract from the defensive tactics training as well. >> there's this fantastic quote i want to read to you, and it's from the police executive research forum, the head of it,