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attorneys. these can be extremely expensive retainers. we saw this in cassidy hutchinson's case. she was not able to share what she wanted to. >> that happened, we knew that de oliveira, they had gone through his phone, seized it, he had not be charged. it was when the indictment came down, we spoke to sources at the time who said tavares, who was known as employee number four, he's the it worker at the center of this, that he had spoken to investigators. then it was later we learned about woodward and the fact he had changed attorneys there. woodward is someone who represents not just people in this case. he's representing people in other investigations surrounding trump as well. he's very close and involved.