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some people think if you can continue the same tone, more people will listen to you. >> it's interesting. you can watch donald trump at his rallies and i've done a number of town halls with him. i find donald trump is much better in that environment. you see a different side of him. the person donald trump that i've known for 30 years, that side is more accessible to people. he can be -- he is smart, well informed. articulate. funny, charming. was very warm to -- when somebody who ask a question after the question, thank you, ma'am, for the question. versus, say, a rally situation where you the end to just go out red meat to the base. >> dana: what a contrast with joe biden. >> one knows what day of the week it is and one doesn't. a dramatic difference.