that show people inside the government trying to craft paychecks in a way so that no one can figure out how much money you make. that's insidious. >> that's the fraud right there. fraud is about intent to deceive. misapprehension, and that's the fraud, showing that they were planning on doing this together. there's fraud, there's conspiracy and the fiduciary duty at city officials like this, city manager, city council members, just for people to know, bill, the average council member in the same town would make $4800 a year for their part-time service. here they were making $100,000 a year. the city manager's pension was over $600,000 a year for the rest of his life. but when we look at the fiduciary duty, we say you have to do what's in the best interest of who you're representing and those officials are representing the people of pel who -- bell who have low incomes and one in six are in poverty. bill: it's a blue collar town.