sounds like tiny firecrackers going off, and they're extremely lethal particularly in civilians. number one, a far larger area and problems with duds and when they lay on the ground. often times children will pick them up and they will he' explode. >> jamie: i hate to think about that and obviously the human rights organization, human watch is very concerned about this. even he's denying that it's going on. what is n.a.t.o. going to do about this? >> well, there's not much we can do about it because sadly, these munitions are proliferated across the world and many n.a.t.o. countries and in fact, we use, have used them in the past and we used them and don't use them in iraq and afghanistan for the very reasons i just mentioned, and so, gaddafi's got money and he is he' bought munitions for the last 40 years and stock piled them in the musicians codes and n.a.t.o. strike from the area and if he wants to he'll continue to use