to be able to -- terrorists are going to be able to get something going in these couple of days because that suggests that section 215 was what was keeping us safe. and there's a lot of controversy about that about whether it really was deterring or preventing terrorist attacks. >> but the government can pretty much do whatever it wants to do and they have a certain amount of time hours to connect to the judge, or the justice department for the fisa court. so they can still listen to anybody they want to listen to. >> they should use the fisa court. and rand paul is right. and this debate is healthy. the problem with all of these limitations is when they happened in world war i or world war ii we knew there was an end point. when the war was over we were going to get our freedoms back. the problem with these laws is that they're permanent. and what rand paul is raising is do we want these permanent restrictions on our freedoms or