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elector scheme, they're looking very closely. >> ken, do you have an idea of what the reaction is, what the sentiment is within doj now to what they're witnessing with these hearings? i'm not saying what leads they want to pursue, but just what happens or what came close to happening in 2020? 2021? >> in terms of the latter, in terms of what we're going to hear today at this hearing, i suspect if you went and asked people on the street, this is one of the lesser known aspects of donald trump's attempt to overturn the election. his attempted, corrupt use of the justice department as liz cheney put it, to try to take actions. but it's arguably among the most consequential. if they had done some of the things he wanted them to do and that little known lawyer, jeffrey clark, an environmental lawyer, if they carried out some of the schemes he was proposing including sending letters that the doj had found fraud in the