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mcguinness, who is one of the founders of the proud boys. also, somebody who might readers might know from vice. in his vision of america, everyone has a gun and stands prepared to shoot looters during the riots in ferguson, quote, this is not in gavin's words, or in any effing riots this year. welfare, which he likened to giving black people money to dump their boyfriends, is abolished. the borders are closed because, according to mcginiss, if you think immigrants are sweethearts just coming here to clean your house, you are an effing more on, and quote. and americans would, venerate their house flags -- women for declining fertility rates. this is meander neanderthal stuff. it is racist, and neanderthal stuff. the point you make in your book is, before being on the fringes, was that the moment it became mainstream? when donald trump talked about it on the main stage? >> i think it's the moment when the american public saw this stuff but this rhetoric has been around forever.