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i mean, innocent people don't go seeking preemptive pardons and pleading the fifth amendment like he did before the january 6th committee when questioned about their actions. i live in d.c., and happened to be in town with the events of january 6th happen, at no point did i think, oh, i better get out of town and pack my bags and call up the president and seek a pardon. those are not the actions of a guy who genuinely believes he did nothing wrong. >> what do you see in the way that he has navigated and it got him in trouble in the mueller probe as well. he hypes, he does bluster, unlike, as you say, some more, perhaps, career potential criminals. there's a propaganda and spin element to it, and yet, on the other hand, he is, we learned, talking to insiders about the elector plot. he is consorting with some of the militias, so there's a hype to it, and then there also appears to be a there there. >> i wouldn't say the hype is