Transcripts For MSNBC The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell 2

Rachel, you had Jim Rutenberg on talking about that New York Times article which is just amazing, and by the way, must be said, beautifully written. I think it may be the best written yeah. Of the trump investigative pieces. Andrew weissmann is going to join us on the same subject to pick up where you left off, which for me is, are there new crimes in this reporting that were looking at . Yeah. The times uses the very gentle word, extralegal. Does that mean illegal . Andrew weissmann is going to take us through it and tell us what he sees in that reporting. Excellent. And its really well timed. Tomorrow were going to see the response from the president s defense team, such as it is, to the Impeachment Charges and the Impeachment Charges are about him inciting an insurrection against the u. S. Government. And what rutenberg and his colleagues just filled in is a lot of the details about how they knew exactly what they were setting up. How they organized it and how it was a coordinated thing. Its very, very relevant to that trial thats going to start in a week. And that hugely important point that leaped out to you and also me, im going to ask our former federal prosecutor, Andrew Weissmann, it was the white houses idea to march to the capitol. And we know that all ideas that come out of that white house have to pass by donald trump, if they arent initiated by donald trump. That seems like one of the real radioactive spots in the reporting for donald trump. Yeah, an angry rally in washington, d. C. , On January 6th would have been one thing. An angry rally in washington, d. C. , On January 6th where the crowd was then pointed at the capitol and told, go get them, that is how we ended up with the capitol breached and if that decision, that staging decision, was made by the president , himself, then this is i mean, this is a different level of culpability, and, i mean, its going to matter for the impeachment. I will be very interested to see what Andrew Weissmann says about whether it may also implicate the president in potential federal criminal charges or d. C. Criminal charges in the future. Well, then we will get right to it. Okay. Thanks, lawrence. Thank you, rachel. Thank you. Congresswoman katie porter is going to join us later in the hour. On a night where its suddenly Mitch Mcconnell versus Kevin Mccarthy. The Republican Senate leader Minority Leader is reaching into the business of the House Minority leader and that business is the republican member of the house who Mitch Mcconnell tonight is calling loony and full of Conspiracy Theories and calling her a cancer on the Republican Party. Kevin mccarthy had said, leave it to him, hell talk to Marjorie Greene about all of her craziness. Mitch mcconnell is saying no, no, no, she is a cancer on the party. Well get katie porters reaction to that later in the hour. And we will know a lot more about the Senate Impeachment trial of donald trump tomorrow after the House Managers file the first trial brief with the senate that could include a list of witnesses that the prosecution might want to call to testify at the trial. Also tomorrow, Donald Trumps lawyers face a deadline of 12 00 noon for filing their very First Defense brief and Donald Trumps lawyers will have less time to work on that First Defense brief than any other Defense Lawyers in the history of Senate Impeachment trials because yesterday all five of Donald Trumps Defense Lawyers just quit. They quit, walked out. And they were replaced last night by two new lawyers, bruce castor and david schoen. Bruce castor is a former prosecutor who not only decided not to charge bill crosby with any crimes, he actually promised bill cosby that he would never be charged with any crimes in that county. Several years later, bill cosby was charged and convicted in that county. And bruce castor then sued the woman who testified against bill cosby. So thats one lawyer donald trump has on his side now. His other lawyer, david schoen, described himself this way. I represented all sorts of Reputed Mobster figures. Alleged head of Russian Mafia in this country, israeli mafia, and one guy who was described as the biggest mob boss in the world. The Washington Post reports schoen met with the financier who was accused of sexually abusing dozens of girls. Donald trumps new lawyers were greeted this morning by a page one investigative report in the New York Times that rachel and i were just discussing. This reporting deepens Donald Trumps involvement in the january 6th invasion of the capitol. The times reports the very idea of marching to the capitol came out of the trump white house. The Rally Organizers had no intention and no permit for marching to the capitol until the white house took over the planning of the event. And then they didnt have a permit, but they still marched to the capitol because donald trump told them to do it. A team of seven New York Times reporters produced this dramatic account of 77 days of donald trump trying to subvert the election after he had given up any chance of winning the election legally. The report includes new indications of additional possible crimes by donald trump, committed by donald trump. Mostly on the telephone. By calling federal and state officials and asking them to take what would have been illegal actions. Five days after this network and others called the election for joe biden, in a dramatic and buffoonishly inept meeting, donald trump decided what he could not do legally he would do illegally. The times reports its the day mr. Trumps effort turned into Something Else entirely, to subvert the election rooted in a lie so convincing to his supporters, it made the deadly january 6th assault almost inevitable. Rudy giuliani said Voting Machines had transformed thousands of trump votes into biden votes in georgia. Deputy Campaign Manager justin clark said there was no evidence of that in georgia and georgia could prove that the vote count was accurate. Mr. Giuliani called mr. Clark a liar according to people with direct knowledge of the exchange. Mr. Clark called mr. Giuliani something much worse and with that the Election Law Experts were sidelined in favor of the former New York City mayor, the man who was telling the president what he wanted to hear. What followed, says the times was 77 democracy bending days. The times reports donald trump was dissatisfied with Attorney General william barr before the election because the Attorney General resisted Donald Trumps, quote, idea to end Birthright Citizenship in a legally dubious preelection executive order. Republican reaction varied from Senate Leader Mitch Mcconnell saying the president had a right to pursue his Legal Options but never saying anything like the election was stolen to House Republican leader Kevin Mccarthy, saying on fox, everyone whos listening, do not be quiet, do not be silent about this. We cannot allow this to happen before our very eyes. And senator Lindsey Graham saying on fox, they can all go to hell as far as im concerned. Ive had it with these people. Lets fight back. We lose elections because they cheat us. The times has new Information On Trump repeatedly urging Attorney General barr to launch investigations, quote, for weeks mr. Trump had been peppering him with tips of fraud that upon investigation by federal authorities proved baseless. After the president complained to fox that the Justice Department was missing in action, mr. Barr told the Associated Press that, quote, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome. Now with white House Counsel pat a. Cipollone backing him, mr. Barr told the president he could not manufacture evidence. And his department would have no role in challenging states results. The allegations about manipulated Voting Machines were ridiculously false, he added. The lawyers propagating them led by mr. Giuliani were clowns. Mr. Trump paused, thought about it and said, maybe. The times reports for the first time that the lawsuit filed with the Supreme Court by the Texas Attorney general and joined by other republican State Attorneys General was actually written by some donald trump lawyers. At mr. Trumps urging, the Republican Attorneys general association made one final play asking mr. Barr to back the suit. He refused on december 11th. The court declined to hear the case ruling that texas had to right to challenge other states votes. One Republican Attorney general who refused to participate in that case was chris karr of georgia. Quote, that prompted a call from the president who warned mr. Carr not to interfere, an aide to the Attorney General confirmed. And theres yet another call that donald trump made to georgia that could be an election crime in and of itself. There was the president of the United States threatening georgias Attorney General to not do his job in defending the state of georgia against a lawsuit initiated by the president and filed by the Texas Attorney general. Donald trump was trying to commit Election Fraud in georgia and threatening the Georgia Attorney general not to get in his way. This New York Times report seems to have added substantially to the criminal investigative leads that should be followed by the Justice Department and the state of georgia and other states. Later in december, white house meetings became even more deranged, with one participant saying it was really damn close to fist fights. A North Carolina lawyer brought into the discussion by white house Chief Of Staff mark meadows told donald trump that mike pence had the authority to decide which electoral votes could be counted On January 6th when congress met to accept the results of the Electoral College. That, of course, was a legal lie. Mike pence had no such authority. 255 million, thats how much money donald trump raised in those 77 days. Donald trump raised 255 million for himself and the Republican Party, telling people the lie that the election was stolen and the money that they would give to donald trump would be used to overturn that election and keep donald trump in the white house. When the Electoral College formally voted on december 14th, giving joe biden the presidency, contributions to Donald Trumps fraudulent cause dropped immediately from 2. 9 million a day to 1. 2 million a day. So most of the people who fell for the lie came to their senses when the Electoral College voted on december 14th. But that left more than enough people to invade the capitol On January 6th and Murder Police officer Brian Sicknick whose body will be brought to lie in honor in the Capitol Rotunda tomorrow at 9 30 p. M. Leading off our discussion tonight is former federal prosecutor Andrew Weissmann who served as General Counsel to the fbi. He also served as a Senior Member of Robert Muellers Special Counsel Team that investigated russian interference in the 2016 election. Hes now an msnbc legal analyst. And andrew, i was thinking of you on every line of this report as i went through it. And i was just making little checkmarks, question mark, is that a crime, is that a crime, is that a crime . I wont lead you, i wont lead the witness. What do you see in here that might constitute a crime . Well, let me start by saying one thing about Defense Lawyers, which is theres nothing wrong with being a Defense Lawyer and theyre necessary to our constitutional process, and starting with, you know, president john adams, Supreme Court justice marshall, i mean, theres a noble tradition of Defense Lawyers doing, you know, gods work for their clients. But in order to do that, they have to adhere to ethical standards and they also have to adhere to the criminal laws. Here, what struck me was the number of leads in this story, particularly with respect to lawyers in the process, the lawyers who are willing to finally stand up to the president to say were not going to manufacture evidence, whether its clark or barr or cipollone, those are going to be very important witnesses if theres an investigation, as i believe there should be, into Election Fraud. And then you have other lawyers who appear to think that its fine to perpetrate and perpetuate the false claim that donald trump won the election. And i think the reason youre seeing so many lawyers quit is people adhering to the tradition of being a reputable Defense Lawyer who will not participate in a crime, and just remember, to lie in the senate is actually a federal crime. So, you know, whether its a lawyer or not a lawyer, you cant Say Something that you know to be false. Let me go to the phone call that donald trump makes as president to the Georgia Attorney general, chris carr, and it reads in the New York Times as a threatening call, saying, dont you get involved in this, dont you open your mouth about these other Attorneys General Led by texas in a lawsuit we discover was actually written by trump lawyers. Dont you get involved in this case, that sounds, andrew, like another one of those calls of donald trump into the state of georgia trying to perpetrate an Election Fraud on georgia and threatening republican elected officials there to not get in his way. So that is both potentially a state crime and a federal crime. I mean, it is a crime to interfere in the proper counting of ballots and certification of those votes, and thats a federal crime. There also, obviously, are state crimes. And, you know, any good investigator is going to speak to not just the georgia officials but, you know, theres reason to think that that would have gone on in any of the socalled swing states, as well as wanting to know all of the internal discussions in the white house with people saying, dont do that, that is not true. And then, obviously, very compelling evidence is that every single one of the lawsuits was thrown out substantively because there was no evidence of fraud. So this is one where if the new incoming Attorney General is going to take this seriously, theres a lot theres a lot of Fertile Ground here. Theres a passage in there that refers to donald trump peppering the Attorney General, presumably by phone because it sounds like it was happening a lot, and with to the point where Attorney General barr has to say